thinkin about getting the puch head???

Nope wont hurt a thing, I run the Puch heads on two of my engines, was having issues with one of them running a bit hotter than I would lime and the Puch head boosted performance and solved the running a bit hot issue, the Fred head is another great option increased performance and better cooling.

Just replace the upper wrist pin bearing with a higher quality one wnd enjoy the better performance.

Map

Several members run a Puch head on stock bottom ends without issues.
Upgrading the wrist pin bearing is a good idea though, and very easy to do.
Only costs about $10-15 bucks anyway.

Best value upgrade there is imo. Add a good expansion exhaust and some porting, youll be a happy camper.

Dan.

Yep wrist pin bearing good idea, super easy mod.....

The puch heads squish band is totally incorrect and its butt ass ugly and it doesn't cool properly but if you want to run ghetto parts there you go and and destination is inevitable meaning kiss your motor good bye. If you want True High Performance and the ultimate cooling then by of Fred head.
RACE TRACK PROVEN. can argue the fact jack!!!!

Huffydavidson said:

The puch heads squish band is totally incorrect and its butt ass ugly and it doesn't cool properly but if you want to run ghetto parts there you go and and destination is inevitable meaning kiss your motor good bye. If you want True High Performance and the ultimate cooling then by of Fred head.
RACE TRACK PROVEN. can argue the fact jack!!!!

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People been running the Puch heads with good success for several years with no issues and nothing bit good results, they do help engine cool a lot better in my experience and they offer a percormance gain, I get compliments on how the head looks on my engines and I have been clocked at 48mph on my dax build running the Puch 70cc hi hi head an NT carb and a straight pipe exhaust, before the Puch head I could go a few miles at close to 9000rpm and my spark plug would turn a bluish color from heat, after installing the Puch head the engine ran better and the plug stays silver and the head engine is cooling much better now.

Now, I didnt say all that to say that the Fred head isn't probably a superior product, but from experience I can say that the Puch head does a nice job all the way around at almost a third of the price and the average mostly stock engine can probably see about the same performance difference with the Puch head as it will the Fred head.

I say if a person has the money to buy the Fred head and wants the best they can likely get then that is the way to go, but for the people who cant afford to pay as much for a head as they can almost buy a complete engine for, the Puch head is a great upgrade that does add performance and better cooling if someone thinks they need it, I never had any cooling issues until my last build which has way more porting and turns way more rpms than any of my other china girls ever have.

I have a Fred head as you know.... and plan to run it on my next dax build, it is a great looking head and I have no doubts it will shine above and beyond on a well done build with several mods, im looking forward to running it to see how it performs compared to the other heads I've run, but I gotta speak up for the affordable upgrade the Puch head offers also, for the people who dont have a lot of money to spend a Puch head is a great option and will not hurt the engine but will instead help it cool better and offer better performance than the stock heads that have no squish band at all.

Hard to argue about the Fred head being a darn good looking head, but hard to argue about the Puch head not before ng a good inexpensive option when so many hwve had good success with them.

Map

Considering the op lives in Canada puts him with 95% of us that don't live near a race track that host motorized bikes the Puch head should be a nice upgrade.

My Puch head, home ported and notched piston motor stayed up with my buddy's Arrow 4.5 motor. Once I put on my sbp exhaust I can fly right past him, on the straights or up a hill. Hmmm what head is he running? Oh yeah the Fred head lol. The Fred head is a great head and I'm sure it is superior to the lowly Puch head but my results I can live with.

Oh one last tidbit. After our rides my head constantly stays about 5 degrees cooler than his. Good, bad, I don't know but that's what's happening.

Dan.

EDIT*
Wanted to add that I think Fred makes great products and were lucky to have a guy like this in the industry. Also I will be ordering some parts from him just as soon as they become available again.

Danschutz said:

Considering the op lives in Canada puts him with 95% of us that don't live near a race track that host motorized bikes the Puch head should be a nice upgrade.

My Puch head, home ported and notched piston motor stayed up with my buddy's Arrow 4.5 motor. Once I put on my sbp exhaust I can fly right past him, on the straights or up a hill. Hmmm what head is he running? Oh yeah the Fred head lol. The Fred head is a great head and I'm sure it is superior to the lowly Puch head but my results I can live with.

Oh one last tidbit. After our rides my head constantly stays about 5 degrees cooler than his. Good, bad, I don't know but that's what's happening.

Dan.

EDIT*
Wanted to add that I think Fred makes great products and were lucky to have a guy like this in the industry. Also I will be ordering some parts from him just as soon as they become available again.

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Yep, The Puch heads do a great job, and obviously the Fred heads also do a great job, as with all of the mod parts for these engines and our bikes its mainly about what a person wants and what they can afford to spend.

Personally I like the look of the Puch head and the look of the Fred head, I've actually seen a couple others heads that I like the look of, the only one I never was very fond of was the Manic ashtray looking head, may work ok byt just really took away from the look of the engine in my opinion.

Jakes Custom motor bicycles has a nice selection of Freds parts also, and Fred has said on facebook that he likes what they do at Jakes.
http://shop.jakebike.com/Top-End_c5.htm

personally I like all the stuff that helps the looks and the performance of these engines, but I will say again that the best performance booster I have seen on a stock set up that needs a bit more power and more speed potential is a well tuned carb and a free flowing exhaust, 40mph bikes can be made pretty easy with these two mods along with correct gearing.

Map

the combustion chamber on the puch 70cc hi hi is practicaly identical to the fred head ....

buy a puch and save like 60$ unless you have the cash to spend and want a unuiqe product and look.

i would also say the puch head is just as good at cooling as the fred head..

i run the 70cc hi hi and it is the best budjet mod have gotten yet

freds cut on pistons are also a great buy if you are doing your top end over. they are ground for exhaust and transfer port timing correections and all you need to do is cut the skirt for the intake and you will have the best piston for your motor, that is what i run a cut on piston skirt cut and a puch hi hi head with heavy porting and my bike pulls harder than any other one i have ever riden.

that's simply not true Roger just not true Roger not true at all you don't have a Fred head.
you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Huffydavidson said:

The puch heads squish band is totally incorrect and its butt ass ugly and it doesn't cool properly but if you want to run ghetto parts there you go and and destination is inevitable meaning kiss your motor good bye. If you want True High Performance and the ultimate cooling then by of Fred head.
RACE TRACK PROVEN. can argue the fact jack!!!!

Click to expand...

love the fred head .... unffortunatly i am quite poor and can not afford it, from what i have personaly seen the fred head and the puch 70cc hi hi have nearly identical squish bands ... the puch is slightly larger though . and the puch combustion chamber is a lil taller and narrower but almost identical in cc's as freds 6cc head.

i run the puch 70 cc high high myself and my motor runs verry cool even on the hottest days at WOT for miles of riding, so far i have had nothing but great preformance from them. provided a MAJOR boost to midrange and generaly all around power.

as for the fred head .... i will say it is top of the line and a work of art ! but its out of my price range for sutch a low costing motor . if i was an avid racer i would def run one ether with a dual plug or a comp release setup but as for the standard 6cc high comp head i cant see spending 90 $ + for a head to go on a 100 $ motor........ when i can get a puch head with a nearly identical combustion chamber and cc volume for 40 $ to my door.

and as for cooling with the puch head ... mine never realy gets over 300 deg f and runs a world of a diff better than stock. i can put my bare hand on the puch head after a WOT run for a few miles and not burn by hand !

and i personaly like the look of the puch head albeit not as much as i like the fred head lol that thing looks awsome !

i wish i had a 6cc fred head in my hand right now so i could take my vern caliper to it and to my puch just to show how close they realy are in chamber designe .

before i bought the puch i spent a great deal of time staring at blown up pics of the combustion chamber of the fred head and the puch head and aside from slight differances in the size of the squish band width and chamber dome hight thay are nearly identical . deck hight and squish clearance on the puch is easily adjusted by decking the jug or changing gasket thickness and is verry close to the fred head. that is the reson i went with the puch it cost 40$ to my door and is the closest head there is to the fred head wich cost practicaly as much as a new motor ! 89$ before shipping for the standard head and the higher end fred heads with comp release or dual plug options actualy do cost more than a brand new china girl !!!

oh i also run the stock needle bearing that came with my grubee gt5 and it has been holding up quite well for the last 1500 miles with my puch head and turning just fine at 6,000 to 8,000 rpm's

i will say this though ... for street use on a bone stock motor ... it wont matter wether u buy a fred head or any other head the preformance gain is going to be small. however cooling with the fred head will be noticably better .

if you realy want to wake your motor up the combo of good porting, port matching, a free flowing exhaust and a fred head or puch head (the 2 best heads IMHO) will net you the best gains . my advice is port your jug and ramp your piston for exhaust and transfer ports, then port mach intake and exhaust, then cut the baffles out of your stock exhaust and open the stinger up to 5/8 ID and man you will be blown away with the power you get from those mods ! al those mods are free by the way if you own a dremal ! and why not do them when you pull the head ? you will have acsess to your top end ayway right ? if you have the extra cash pick up a 40 tooth sprocket ! now that you have more power you will be able to turn a slightly smaller sprocket and still have more torque than stock ! this will net you a few more MPH and still leave you with as much if not more torque than stock with a 44t


from my own personal experiance those few free mods and a puch head netted me a 40 + mile per hour beach cruiser ! i actualy whent back to a 44t because i was afraid my cheap beach cruiser bike could not stand up to 40 mile an hour speeds over time, plus i like to do wheelies lol and i usualy only ride along at 30 any way so i was wasting potential power with the smaller gearing . my stock exhaust is gone now and i run a custom pipe my fiance made for me (she is a welder by trade) with plans and cone layout paterns i printed out myself. its piped for a powerfull band that kiks in at around 4,500 and streaches up to max rmp

here is the puch and the fred heads side by side...

you can see they are verry close, the puch has a slightly flater squish than the fred but they are close and the combustion chambers are very close also the heads cc volume is almost identical ! even the same plugs are used, though to get the squish clearance for the puch to be as close as the fred head you need to deck your jug like i did or use a thinner custom copper head gasket to get the clearance closer. other than that they are pretty damn close !

puch 70cc has a larger squish and a smaller chamber fred head has a smaller squish and a larger chamber . bolth are close to each other that it wont matter on a stock motor !and depending on how you ride and your mods and goals ether one could be a great choise ! i like the wider squish for mid range power freds tighter squish and smaller band would be great for raceing preformance. i found an inbetween by decking my jug and making a thinner head gasket to obtain a tight squish clearance like freds but with the benifit of a wider band for more midrange torque ...

if your short on cash and know how to make a thin gasket from copper sheet metal or know how to deck down your jug on some glass and sand paper than the puch head is a very good decision. the fred head requires decking any way if have a grubee so i went with the puch . i see a benifit to the wider squish as it add to torque mostly in the midrange rpms of our motors. if i was building a race bike i would have saved some more cash and bought a fred head for the shorter squish, ether way they are not that much diff from each other in fact they are close enough that if a normal person were to ride the same stock bike blind folded twice with bolth heads installed, they probably would not know the differance between the 2 at all

I have to agree with map and roger 100%. if you have the money and want the very best go with fred's head ( I will be running a twin plug fred head on at least one of my next 2 builds ) but if you dont have the money a puch head is a nice one to use.

as was said by someone else I can ride wot for miles and lay my hand on my head and with a stock head I could not ride a block or 2 at wot and touch it with out burns.

cooling a air cooled motor is about surface area and one thing the puch has a lot of surface area to cool the motor.

On top of that most people like the look of the puch head some more then fred head but looks are all about taste