Was running but wouldnt idle

GoldenMotor.com

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
Hi everyone! I am a newbie here.. My name is Erico. ok, heres the scoop....got a flying horse "80"cc motor from Bikeberry. Fresh on my bike and it hasn't ran right but it has been running. The basics of what i have noticed is this- it seemed to run a lil lean at first but my fault cause i cracked my head overtorquing. I slapped a new one on and ran fast but seemed a little hot..it would cut out after a 20 min ride..pulled the plug and it was lite tan. A couple o days later on the way home mid throttle i had to twist it all the way in just to give it more power..(keep in mind when i jumped from 1/2 throttle to 3/4ths it would audibly "jump" and slightly go faster) i look down and another cracked head. :-|| All in all i have changed every easy-to-reach gaskets with new ones and took it the next day. It seemed like it wasnt riding as smooth as it was(maybe oil rich) and then after 4 miles it starting running rough and wouldnt accelerate..looked at my head and base gasket and there seemed to be gas mix on it. I then readjusted and torqued back down.. it ran but i had to twist the throttle in a bit to keep it idling..messed with the idle screw to no avail.. and now it wont stay running for poop. My opinion is it my be a crankcase leak or im running rich now that the motor is broke in. I sprayed every crevice members have suggested throughout this site with starter fluid and i cant find any leak..even sprayed cc gasket but nothing happened. I have maybe 300 miles on motor and havent adjusted anything yet. I am on the 2nd notch on e clip but i dont have any room to adjust throttle cable..i set it per one members instructions--adjusting clutch and proper setting in the cyl//crcase section. Maybe its too short? its not bound anywhere. carbs working and i have fuel flow from a petcock i bought at a hardware store. Sorry so long Any suggestions or help would be appreciated to the fullest thanks everyone
 

maniac57

Old, Fat, and still faster than you
Oct 8, 2011
4,484
22
0
memphis Tn
I'm guessing you have the angle plug head? I always have better luck running these heads with the plug towards the rear. When the plug is forward, it has very marginal cooling.
I'd suggest adding a second base gasket to pull a bit of compression if it's still feeling hot.
The angle plug head simply sucks. Plain and simple.
Believe me...I tried long and hard to like the stock angle plug head.
Fred Head on the way as I type.
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
Thanks maniac for your reply. Update-i took a peek at the gaskets on the head and base (new copper ones) and a spot on both where it didnt seem to seat.. so i "aligned" it up best i could and fired her up..starts up and seemed to go fine when i twisted the throttle but it still wont idle. I am going to go mess with the e clip and see what happens. I know a little about the basics but i tend to overthink then get frustrated if things dont go smooth. Maniac, i do have an angle fire head but on my first motor everything ran fine and i never adjusted a thing for months. I felt a little wet mix on both sides of the bottom crankcase bolt but wouldnt the bike NOT run if it were blown?
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
haha sorry crassius. Sometimes i type faster than i think.. Yeah, gas mix along the seams on both sides of bottom crankcase bolthole is what i noticed still(after i wipe it then take it out for a pedal). I am not sure what you mean by seals.. I took it out after i moved the e clip a notch closer to the pointy end and it started right on up and idled..but as soon as it warmed up it wouldnt idle anymore. I also had to rev up on the throttle to keep it running and it did go but ran rougher than the day before when i pedaled out. I got this motor on black friday but dint put it on and start it till bout march. I mentioned before it was running lean when i first ran it and getting super hot. I looked down at my fins and noticed a tiny hole and the thread of my stud on the outside towards the back of the carb port. Took a peek at intake side and can see the end of the stud threads there also. Would that create an air leak being so close to the ports?
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
leaking along the seam of the case means your case bolts aren't tight - you'll need a hand impact driver to get these really tight (there are also 3 more of these under the clutch)

when these get leaky, you'll have a lot of strange problems
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
Crassius, what do you mean there is 3 more under the clutch..? When you say case bolts I presume that you mean the 2 under the cylinder base and one on the bottom of the motor.. past that i dont know of any but i will take a quick gander and see. I hand tightened those 3 screwhead bolts as best as i could but wondering if i should replace them with allenhead bolts like i did with all the outer covers. Any input or suggestions?
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
there are 8 of them - 2 at the top, 1 at the bottom, 2 at the front mount, and 3 at the rear where you need to pull off the clutch to get at them (note: one of these is too long, so they put a washer on it to keep from bottoming it into the case)

I've never seen hand tightening do much good - you need an impact driver.
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
thanks alot for that bit of information. I have never known about those and i been reading on this forum quite a bit. Well, i went out last night to investigate what you were talking bout and i have the clutch disassembled down to the nut(behind plate) and i have that off along with a "washer" with teeth in the middle. Do you need a bearing puller to get the rest off so i CAN see the c.case bolts? I will go look at normans post somewhere and see if i cant get a clear pic but i see a little notch in the space behind the thread of the nut i took off(not sure what to call it). Is theres supposed to be a key in that notch? I notice that i can move the shaft that the flower nut screws on.. maybe a seal? I just rocked the drive sprocket side and it didnt move but i didnt take the nut off to check either. This WAS a new motor. haha zpt
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
some kits come with the removal tool - all sellers online seem to have them cheap too
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
Are you talking about that socket with 2 sides on it? Im not good with tech terms and tool terminology but i have a little experience. Past that i probably didnt get it in the first kit cause i got all the same products to a T. The first BB motor was awesome and well built.. not like this shoddy one.
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
I have an update.. OK, so i finally got that clutch remover tool and decided to take that off. Just for giggles I tried to tighten the case screwhead bolts but they wouldnt budge a flea hair. I dont see any drippage except on the bottom part of the seal(of the bearing or is that the bearing itself). Doesnt smell like gas/oil mix but looks burntish. Also, as a 2 time builder I dont claim any rights to basic smarts(haha) so i forgot the spark and fuel rule. I changed out the cdi(i gotta wait to go to work to get a tester) and i still get no spark. Plug too. I went to my coil, unscrewed that and on the bottom 2 holes there was leakage and it looks like it heated up a bit on the bottom side of the mag. OR maybe it just nasty built up oil from gas mix leaking in there. I checked it when i first put it on the bike but its in one of those spots ya gotta be looking for specifically. I could change out coils but that doesnt fix the stuff leaking onto it. Maybe my seals are bad?
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
Oh, and I have an add-on question.. when i took my loop(coil) off and fed the wires through that hole, that junk plastic piece that threads on i pulled it off. I looked in where it threads into(flakes fell out) and noticed some holes in the thread wall. They are on the left inside when you look in the hole. Like I said I got a black friday special and my cylinder body had threads exposed and a tiny hole right in the fin where my studs screwed in. On both-intake and carb port. Does that affect air/fuel mixture?
 

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
11
38
San Diego, Kaliforgnia
Holes in the cylinder body into the cylinder stud through passages are common.
(the long studs that hold the cylinder and cylinder head onto the crankcase) They won't hurt anything or cause an air leak as they are located outside the cylinder bore and don't go all the way through into the bore itself.
So long as the hole where the intake stud is does not go through into the intake port it will not do any harm.
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
the 2 seals that might leak are on the ends of the crank - under the clutch & drive sprocket are sealed bearings that will usually have grease on the outside

the mag coils are sometimes coated in varnish that can look like a dried spill, but not anything to worry about

the plug that the wire goes thru is just to keep water out (I like to seal that with silicon)
 

JangAlang

Member
May 8, 2014
49
0
6
illinois
Thanks again crassius. Very helpful info. I forgot to throw in there that my motor was tilted a little more forward for a couple of weeks and i didnt pay attention to it slightly moving. I did straighten that out and this is where im at now. i did take off my muffler during this process and tried firing it up.. it didnt rev outta control but it took bout 3 or 4 secs to go back to a poor idle. I still havent tested anything(too much work,no play) but i think i will switch out coils, get some fresh gas, and see what happens..with my current luck, i will be back soon haha thanks again everyone for your 2 cents..