Clutch seized while running

GoldenMotor.com

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
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3
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California
Last night I was riding home and I heard a really fast clanking sound as I was riding. Sounded real unhealthy and I noticed when I pulled in the clutch (disengaged motor) the sound would stop.

As I continued, a few miles later the sound got really bad and the bike jerked to a stop (I also hit the brakes). I pulled off to the side and noticed that when the clutch was pulled in I could only push the bike forward before it would lock up. However going backwards worked fine.

I attempted basic clutch adjustments (the cable was still tight with some slack on the arm). I played with the flower nut and all that but still couldn't get it to work. The plate under the clutch cover would move towards me as I pulled in the clutch.

I checked the sprocket side and tried hitting the rod with my pliers to no avail. Actually, I just realized this morning that I lost the ball bearing last night, it must've fallen out. Now waiting on a replacement...

Anybody have any ideas? I'm stumped.
 
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2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
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Littleton, Colorado
Possibly we're looking at a chain problem and not the clutch. How's your chain tension? A loose chain will bind up over the engine drive sprocket causing the same symptoms you describe.

You can probably find a ball bearing at Ace hardware. Either a 5/16" or an 8mm ball is what you need. Also the ball and the bucking bar need to be well lubricated with bearing grease during assembly. The cam in the cover also needs grease. If you nicked or gouged the end of the bucking bar by hitting it with pliers you need to smooth the damaged area. A rough surface there can cause extreme wear on the cam and bar and make your clutch harder to pull.

Tom
 

crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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sounds like your clutch hub bearing is bad - is there a round mark inside the clutch cover, or are there fine, steel wires sticking out of your clutch pad? - either of these can put metal into that bearing
 

Davezilla

New Member
Mar 15, 2014
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San Antonio Texas
Yup... if you got the clutch pads that look like they were cut out from an old tire, they do she'd off tiny pieces of fine steel wire... not good for the bearings. You can trim off any pieces of this fine wire before you run it as preventative maintenance but swapping over to the brick red hard rubber pads will prevent that problem for good, and this type does grip really well, or at least we'll enough to hold on a stock engine or one that's mildly modified, I've never had a clutch slip issue with the red pads and some of the engines I've built have a lot more torque than stock.
it is possible that the clutch hub bearing seized up and just needs replacement, or it could be a bad clutch cam on the other side, or the bucking bar or steel ball. I would remove the clutch gear cover and check there first and check for metal shavings or pieces of fine steel wire coming off the pads or in the clutch housing, then check under the actuator cover for a bad or worn clutch cam or bucking bar if all looks well on the hub and gear side. Clutch parts are fairly easy to replace and not too expensive.

I've also found the clutch shafts bearings to be loose and rough turning on some engines just after about an hour or so of riding, these bearings can put extra stress on the hub bearing if one of the shafts bearings gets too much play in it, making it near impossible to adjust enough for a full disengagement because if the shafts bearings have play in them the whole shafts will move a little before the clutch will disengage. These bearings are the same size as the crank bearings and fairly easy to replace, a set of sealed SKF bearings will last longer and eliminate any shaft wobble or side play so I would recommend changing these for quality bearings if there's any signs of wear on either shafts bearing.
 

BOYGOFAST

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Sep 28, 2013
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Citrus Springs Fl.
the inner disk opposite the flywheel freewheels and will turn a a different rate of rpm than the pressure plate/flywheel likely it should be welded so both pieces spin at the same time
 

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
67
3
8
California
My chain tension seems fine to me (I have an MM hub adapter), I spent a good while making sure the chain was lined up and tight.

I wish I knew I could purchase one at Ace, because I spent $3.40 on eBay. I have some LMX "Red" grease which I'll use to make sure all those parts are greased up.

I'm not sure what the clutch hub bearing is... I took some photos of my engine. Is there supposed to be grease under those clutch pads? It seems pretty dry...
I'm waiting on my ball bearing to arrive to see exactly what is wrong.





 

crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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I'm guessing from the pic of your bucking bar that your ball bearing is in there - I'd be taking the chain of and turning the hub to see how that bearing feels

was there a small circle worn into the clutch cover?
 

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
67
3
8
California
Thanks for the responses..

There was no worn circle on the clutch cover

I found that a bolt had loosened on my MM sprocket adapter and was grinding up against the coaster brake which explains some things... (putting loctite on that!)

So today my clutch ball bearing came. I put grease on it, as well as the clutch rod and inserted them. Now it sticks out too far... I tried hitting it with a hammer...I'm unsure of what to do.
I attempted to get the ball bearing out to see if there was anything peculiar going on but I couldn't get it out. I tried spraying tri-flow up in it and leaning the bike over, but I think it's stuck in there now from when I hit the clutch rod with the hammer...wish I had a magnetic rod, but now I'm not even sure that would get it out.





:-||
 
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crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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as I mentioned, it looked like you had one ball already in there (feeling in there with tiny screw driver will let you know if something round is inside) - to get it out, you may have to loosen flower nut and tap it with a hammer to see if you can knock the ball out to other side - this is a bit easier than other way of taking shaft out and banging it on something hard to knock it out
 

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
67
3
8
California
Hm, I had looked inside it and was convinced the ball was missing. But you could be right that there are 2 balls in there now.

My clutch plate is completely removed, and I've tried knocking on the other side to get it out, shaking the bike, using more lubricant, no luck... the ball is stuck in there.

Am I going to have to disassemble the engine to get it out?
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
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easy to get fooled if you don't feel around in there - only the ball bearing will feel smooth & round, if it's missing it will feel rough & flat

shaft can be pushed out toward clutch side once drive sprocket is off
 

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
67
3
8
California
Thanks a lot crassius!

After doing soem searching on removing the drive sprocket, it's just my luck that my sprocket removal tool's threads are ruined and wont screw in right.

My buddy should have one that I can borrow, but before I do that can anyone clarify the procedure for me?

Am I supposed to remove the picture nut first by using this tool that came with the kit, and THEN screw in the drive sprocket removal tool, after which I'll screw the other part in which should pop off the sprocket?

Sorry for the lack of proper terms...

 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
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first the nut & washer come off, then clean the threads inside with a rag, then very carefully thread the puller tool into those threads

then put the nut on loosely to protect the threads and use a mallet to drive the shaft thru to other side (removing nut once it is moving thru)
 

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
67
3
8
California
I finally got the sprocket off and got this far, I've tried tapping the shaft with a hammer to get it to come through to the other side, but it won't budge...

Am I supposed to remove something on the clutch pad side?



 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
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USA
just had a guy this AM - stripped off the woodruff key under drive sprocket and tore up that whole shaft so there wasn't even a slot left for new key

tapped the shaft out with clutch intact on other side (because I couldn't grip the shaft to undo it) - slid right out with a few taps with a big mallet

then I was able to grip messed up end of shaft in vise to undo clutch and move all to good used shaft

just finished an hour ago
 

JoeMetro

Member
May 4, 2014
67
3
8
California
I was able to get the shaft out, then I was able to get the stuck ball bearing. After I got that one out, I saw the other one (you were right there was two!), which was also stuck, I got it out by (carefully) banging the clutch assembly on a table.

I cleaned and regreased the whole thing, and hammered it back into the engine.

But then I noticed a notch in the sprocket and one in the shaft as if there's supposed to be a bar there to get them to rotate together. IS there supposed to be something there? If so, then it's anywhere on my garage floor haha
 
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Davezilla

New Member
Mar 15, 2014
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San Antonio Texas
Yup... there's a small woodruff key that goes in there... These things are really small and easy to lose so I try to keep several spares, but you may get lucky and find it on your garage floor, it's the typical half moon key and it's only about 3/8" long. You can get replacements off ebay or thru the venodrs on this site, but that means having to wait a few days for them to arrive. If you have to order a new one, get about 4 or 5 of them and store them in a small pill bottle or something to help prevent loss.
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
drag a heavy magnet around the area where you were working & it may appear

in a pinch, you can make one by folding a steel washer in half (maybe 2 if thin), but better to find a real one - some hardware or auto parts places may have them