losing power&getting noisy??

GoldenMotor.com

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Norm, I bought my kit used at a yard sale,so I'm not sure how many miles are on it.I put my bike together and have been riding it every day now for about a month.I'm starting to lose power at WOT,and she is noisy!Not exhaust noise,sounds like the piston rattling.What is the easiest method to check the rings for wear?Are these engines worth rebuilding?Or is it smarter to just buy a new one?I've seen cylinder-piston-rings kit on ebay for under $30.And just a ring set around $5.Any suggestions before I pull it apart?
Thanks-irefin
 

tooljunkie

Member
Apr 4, 2012
663
5
16
Manitoba,Canada
pull covers and check for loose parts.a little lube in the proper places,including the clutch shaft bearing.
failing that,you will need to tear it down.
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
783
113
UK
I'm sorry, I saw the heading and thought it was about another Arab dictator.
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
Dude!
Watch out, you could be detonating. Power loss at full throttle, combined with loudness of the engine sounds like detonation. That will destroy the engine very quickly if that's what the problem is.
One thing you could do that might help you to determine that is drive the bike so the problems rears it's head, then pull off to the side of the road and put your hand close to the engine. If it's really hot, that may confirm that its detonation. Detonation of fuel mixture can't perform much work to the rear wheel, so the energy goes into the production of heat. I've melted holes in piston because of detonation. All I did to the engine was put a mediocre expansion chamber on a stock engine, and that was all it took to put it over the thermal capacity of the stock motor. Once detonation starts, the engine heats up rapidly and the detonation will continue with increasing ferocity.

But then again, I could be something completely different!

-Fred

.duh.
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Fred, I'm framiliar with detonation,I also race a 2cycle Open Kart.I've replaced more pistons than I care to count.With the kart it's been a timing problem along with carb set too lean on high side.What do I need to do on my bike?Carb needle is set on top notch.I found a rear motor mount stud broken off.Got it out and replaced this morning.Took head off yesterday,cylinder looks smooth.Top of piston and head are black,just a faint appearance of silver.Any ideas? Thanks irefin
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
783
113
UK
Any bearing faults in there? Could it be the big end making the noise? And is there an exhaust leak/blockage?
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
Right, sounds like you have been around a few engines in your time. Well, if you think that it is detonation, a larger cylinder head with better cooling (that's what I had to do) is one solution.
Another possibility I'm thinking of is the lip seals for the crankshaft.... An air leak; if it's large enough, it could lean out your fuel mixture. Almost every engine I have taken apart had at least one compromised lip seal. Compromised by the Chinese "sledge hammer" assembly technique, I usually find one seal where the spring popped out from where it was supposed to be.

-Fred

zpt
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Fred, I'm going to put it back together,move carb setting down a notch,and see what happens.Messing with the bottom half could get complicated.Being she's a used engine ($50 for comlete kit) if it's still not right I'll run it till she blows and buy a new engine.Thanks for the advise. irefin
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
Yeah right, I don't blame you.
You know, I was thinking about your problem this morning, and thought of another thing you could do which would be a easy, cheap adjustment:
How about simply lowering the compression by replacing or adding a bottom cylinder body gasket, or get a thick head gasket (Get that one from Boy Go Fast on ebay), or add another thin gasket on top of the existing one. So, if you want more torque, and on the top(head side) or if you want more top end, add thickness to the bottom of the cylinder.

Alright, well good luck on keeping it alive.

-Fred
.duh.
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Fred, Got it back together yesterday.I move needle down to 2nd notch.It still is down on power at top end.Just doesn't want to clear out from 4 cycling and noisy.BTW she has 2 head gaskets.This is a BGF engine kit.When she dies,is there any particular engine that is any better than the others?Or are they all about the same? Thanks irefin
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
I feel that the engines BGF sells are pretty good. Most of the cranks have misalignment issues. The only way around that aspect is to have the crank straightened, or get an engine that has been gone through from top to bottom. You can get a GT-5 engine from Gasbike.net, but those have even more problems (low compression).
So, the engine is four stoking? Well, with that, I'm not so sure that detonation is your problem. Maybe there is some mechanical problem. When my connecting rod needle bearings were failing, it sounded like a rattle coming from the engine. If that's the case, there was a lubrication failure at some time during the engines life.

-Fred
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Fred, I rode it this morning,definetly down on power and ugly noisey.Now she won't idle,used to purr like a kitten at idle.Seems like compression it down,guessing worn rings.Gonna order a new BGF-80 and maybe try to rebuild the top of this one.BGF is selling a top end kit for about $30.Is this the way to go?Or for $75 buys a complete new engine.And keep this for parts? Thanks irefin
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
I've had this discussion in my head many times!
You know, I think just getting an entire engine is a pretty good way to go. The extra parts are great to have around. One day, you might loose a screw, or the clutch arm weld will break. When that happens, you'll have a carcass to cannibalize!

-Fred
.duh.
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Fred, What can you tell me about the larger intake version engine? BGF is selling it for $6 more than the original.Is this a no-brainer?
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
I'm not sure exactly what the difference is in those. They seem to look the same. Maybe it has a better intake manifold which matches the cylinder port a little bit better. If that were the case, I would definitely do the extra $6.00.

-Fred
zpt
 

maurtis

New Member
Dec 14, 2011
707
0
0
Kyle, TX
I'm not sure exactly what the difference is in those. They seem to look the same. Maybe it has a better intake manifold which matches the cylinder port a little bit better. If that were the case, I would definitely do the extra $6.00.

-Fred
zpt
I have a BGF RB80 and yes, the intake manifold is aluminum and already port matched to the intake port. The mounting studs are 10mm wider, too. I believe the Grubee GT5-A is the same.

I actually wish this were not the case since I would love to try one of your intakes!
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Fred, She finally died yesterday.I took it for a short trip around the block,she sounded sick.I just ran it wide open and spudder,clunk,and she locked up stuck tight.I pulled the head,piston is up and rough around edges as is the outer edge of the head.Does this sound like an overheating issue to you?Maybe it was leaning itself out for one reason or another.I'm gonna pull it off and try to remove the jug this weekend to see what is there.Any advise is always welcome. Thanks irefin
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
783
113
UK
That's detonation, nibbled around the edges. The next engine could probably do with a slightly lower compression ratio and the carb fitting with a number or two richer main jet.
 

crmachineman

New Member
May 24, 2012
259
2
0
New Hampshire
Hmm... That sounds bad!
This sounds like the wrist pin bearing broke apart. The rolling elements fell into the crankcase and eventually pieces were blown up the transfer ports, into the cylinder. The bearing pieces danced around the top of the piston for a while, dinging up the cylinder head and the piston crown, then finally a piece entering or exiting a port got clipped by the piston on a upward stroke and got jammed between the piston and the cylinder, which caused the abrupt seizure of the engine. It will be obvious once you get the cylinder off. You will probably have to take the entire engine off the bike. It's hard to simply lift the cylinder off when this happens because it's severely jammed. You will probably have to knock the piston down with a hammer and a drift of some sort.
Unfortunately, it sounds like your engine is toast.
This can easily happen from running a lean mixture, as it deprives the bottom end bearings from adequate lubrication. Lean conditions also aggravates the possibility for detonation which Ludwig mentioned. Detonation will transmit extreme forces to the engine. These forces are sharp in amplitude, and do little to produce power to the wheels, instead the energy generates tremendous heat and tends to destroy wrist pin bearings.
This is precisely the reason I started making large billet cylinder heads for these engines.
Well, good luck reviving your bike!
-Fred
:-||
 

irefin

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
22
0
0
illinois
Is it detonation or predetonation? I've had this happen to my kart engine,135cc 2 cycle on alky.It was caused by the timing being off.Are these CG's so poorly designed and assembled that the timing could be set wrong?Quite frankly as much as I enjoy riding the bike when it ran good.I'm not impressed with the dependability or quality of these engines at all.I'll try another one and hope for better luck.