Indian Tadpole

Ludwig II · Dec 10, 2018

1.8kw, that's about 2.5 hp, enough for a good speed. The notion of 40 mph backwards intrigues me. So does running one forward, one in reverse in order to rotate on the spot at 30 mph. It has just come to me, you have an all wheel drive vehicle there, provided you can stay warm, icy roads shoud not bother you over much.

The shove from the chair wheel can be reduced if using just the electrics, that would reduce the NASCAR servo steering effect. Q: what is the maximum rated safe rpm for the hub motors under load or no load conditions?

fasteddy · Dec 10, 2018

What surprised me with Miss Daisy is the man putting the Tesla batteries in it is recognized in the YouTube auto rebuilder world as the man to go to for electric vehicle information. Momentary lapse of judgement or carelessness but the end result was spectacular.

From what I've read the Lithium Ion 18650 cells are safe. Then so is a grenade until the pin is pulled. Proper charger matched to the battery and a BMS [battery management system] that controls the charge going to each cell is a must. He was talking about 888 cells and a 52v battery has 54. I still wouldn't charge a battery inside.

They recommend charging them in a steel box or an approve charging bag.

Miss Daisy from what I saw may well have been rebuildable. It looked to be a sheet metal skin over 3/4" plywood and the skin looked to be in good shape since the fire hadn't gotten to it. I would have loved a chance to try making it whole again.

I can imagine that Rich's fascination with all things Tesla and the need to see what would happen if they installed the batteries led to the ill fated journey into the unknown. The wheels and brakes were never made for that much power. Some nice absorbed glass mat batteries and they would have been good to travel.

They polked the angry bear in the backside with a short, sharp stick and learned as I did that you don't always get away with it.

Steve.

indian22 · Dec 11, 2018

Ludwig II said:
1.8kw, that's about 2.5 hp, enough for a good speed. The notion of 40 mph backwards intrigues me. So does running one forward, one in reverse in order to rotate on the spot at 30 mph. It has just come to me, you have an all wheel drive vehicle there, provided you can stay warm, icy roads shoud not bother you over much.

The shove from the chair wheel can be reduced if using just the electrics, that would reduce the NASCAR servo steering effect. Q: what is the maximum rated safe rpm for the hub motors under load or no load conditions?

Thanks Ludwig you're firing neurons so don't phase lapse in synapse till this is figured out .I'd not considered warp speed Scotty, but knowing me I'd eventually give her all she's got. Gearing down on the chair seems a prudent step. The tiny motor sprocket, currently mounted, will be tossed in order to use half inch pitch chain & sprockets. I'll start with a minimum of 4 to 1 reduction & adjust from there.

I'm seeing 3,300 rpm & 4,500 rpm listed but no explanation, load & no load max? Typical Asian kit with zero information in the box. for wiring, but It's all good....

I do love my zero turn devices, boats, lawnmowers etc.but 30 mph seems a bit harsh Ludwig. Now if I can just sort what this little skinny yellow wire is for I'll have the harness figured out to the last dozen wires or so. How hard can it be? I've got Red Green's "Wiring dc controllers for Yankee dummies" book in front of me, so what could possibly go wrong?

Old guy, Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 13, 2018

Steve I've shared those videos with several friends locally as well & preface with "this guy's a professional & an expert in battery operated vehicles; who deals with Tesla products encountered in his business" your analogy of pin in grenade is dead on, expert or not, safety protocols should be followed. He admitted up front his error. It annoys me when a catastrophe such as this occurs & most label it as an "accident". It's no accident when you know you're engaging in risky behavior & things go sideways because you chose to do it your way. The same goes for blaming the technology & completely ignoring proper use & application of such technology...that's on the individual user not the manufacturer/designers. I admire the guy for 'fessing up to his mistake & not blaming Tesla or the battery technology...taking the self blame is not a common trait & it's seldom observed action in today's me, me society's, and that is a shame!

My thanks for sharing this informative video with others. I'm a true novice trying to feel my way through this first use of dc power on a sidecar for limited application. It helps to be reminded and instructed along the way.

I've not encountered any dc powered side cars in my research. If any have please direct me to the source. I don't mind being the first to attempt a new approach, but if others have gone before me (successful or not) their work would be much appreciated. I've posted before that I'm not sure I've ever had an original idea in my life. We seem to build on the thoughts of those that came before us, perhaps with nuance but still safe in the parameters of others work.

It seems the challenge of building my first sidecar was not sufficient (though many examples & much information on the subject exist) I also want to power the side wheel & make a hybrid gas/electric rig...perhaps a first! The famous philosopher Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's got to know his limitations" and I suppose he had a good point, but how is one to know where the borders actually lie if they are not frequently tested and explored?

Rick C.

curtisfox · Dec 13, 2018

The famous philosopher Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's got to know his limitations" and I suppose he had a good point, but how is one to know where the borders actually lie if they are not frequently tested and explored?

So true! But also thinking maybe that's why they don't use side power today, You don't really know until you try............Curt

Ludwig II · Dec 13, 2018

Sometimes a good idea has to wait until the technology arrives. Sometimes a thing is tried, works, but offers no advantages. Did anyone ever hear of the Besler steam plane? It flew and well, but there was no advantage to it.

indian22 · Dec 13, 2018

The Besler is new to me, but I'm looking it up momentarily.

indian22 · Dec 13, 2018

The Besler steam plane was quiet so the pilot could get a nap in once the auto pilot was invented, the cockpit was pretty warm In the winter because of the boiler, this became a big negative in the summer however though it had a super slick reverse in it. Fuel could in theory be anything even wood or paper...though a miniaturized nuclear power source might one day bring the Besler full circle. Overall pretty cool yet impractical. I love it!

Rick C.

fasteddy · Dec 13, 2018

I think that it was a rush to get content for his YouTube channel that caused the problem myself. It's an old saying but when I was a kid my WW2 pilot uncle told me when I was rushing something I was doing and it had danger all over it I'm sure that there were old pilots and bold pilots but one never saw an old, bold pilot. I'm sure he saw a lot of that in the war on all sides.

I have been pushing personal boundaries all my life. I usually describe it as poking an angry bear in the backside with a short, sharp stick. I'm not alone I know because there are so many of us who when they hear "That can't be done." are already planning on how to do it. The tri car is a case in point. A wood worker with limited metal skills learned in school 50 years before sharpened up a stick and went at it.
If it hadn't been for health problems it would have been finished a long time ago.

Steve.

indian22 · Dec 13, 2018

Quitting in the middle of a war or in life seldom works out for us though it might appear that way for awhile eventually it will return to torment, soon or late. I've always admired those who use what they have, employ it where they are & able to start right now. They might not have specific skill sets required so they learn them, own no fine tools or have access to a real shop...the Veskt bike was built in a kitchen and in an urban alley, by a guy who learned some skills on a previous bike build, coupled with some good study, who also had some really good advice from forum members along the way, which he listened to. He got to it and built...not a wealthy young man he started where he was at with what he had, coupled with tenacity he started and he finished it.

Steve the woodworker has traveled the same road & now he has a great project 99% complete and I'd be proud to own it as is and not running. It's just totally unique & perfectly period without trying to exactly replicate an original... thus it is an original circa 2018! I really love your tri car! Calling it a Tadpole is a bit demeaning at this point.

I had my last alcoholic beverage almost 30 years ago, but there are a few guys that I would lift a pint or share 3 fingers with and you are one of those.

Rick C,

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 13, 2018

Well said Rick!
Steve, in leu of progress reports. Please convert all Photoshop records to imbedded photos. Saved for all posterior.

Tom from Rubicon

fasteddy · Dec 13, 2018

I remember the Versk build Rick. It was the epitome of working with what you had in the space available and building a work of art. I recall that there was a rather good description of having to clean off his dryer after he spray painted his bike in the laundry room.

When I was building reproduction furniture and using antique wood to do it people who saw the furniture at antique shows would, it seems, assume that I had a workshop that rivaled Norm Abrams. The look on their faces when they stopped in to visit and saw what I worked with was priceless. Many of them were accomplished wood workers themselves with large shops.

In 2014 Silverbear and I stopped in to see Tinsmith in Maryland. Dan has since retired but he made colonial era reproduction lighting that wasn't really a reproduction as much as a continuation of the way it was made in the 1600 and 1700 hundreds. He did this out of his shop that had been his garage that was like stepping back in time to a shop of the era
. Virtually every tool was a hand operated antique and the lighting was cut out and formed and soldered by hand. If he hadn't said he made it I would have been sure it was original.
Dan and his wife Jackie attended many antique shows for and makers markets for many years. We got share show memories while we were there.

Most people would have had the metal cut in a big metal shop and worked from there but not Dan. Hand made was handmade and Dan wasn't about to compromise.

His bike was built with the same care and reviled his lighting for attention to detail.

So many excellent bikes have been built and displayed here on the forum. Built in basements, garages, spare rooms and back yards in all manner of weather with the tools and funds available. Each was was guided by the builders vision of what it should look like and the vision guided their hands.

Rick, thank you for the heartfelt offer. I'd love to hoist a pint with you as well but unfortunately that is a vague memory as well other than very special occasions and people over the years and that's ended with age and health.

A very large tea cup, black with honey has to suffice now. Leaning on the bed of a pickup watching the sun rise with a cup of tea in my hand doesn't have the same soul moving experience that tossing yet another empty beer can into the pile in the back of truck did but the memories are fresh as ever. The world moved in a much better orbit after those gatherings as it's problems were solved.

Going to be a bit more slow going for a week or so. House is full of flue victims and it's finally found me but so far it's just a bad cold.

Steve.

fasteddy · Dec 13, 2018

Excellent idea Tom. I will have my nephew the computer whiz help me gather them up from Photobucket and get them back to my computer. I can sort through them and put the relevant ones on the forum.

Steve.

Ludwig II · Dec 14, 2018

Going back to the steam plane and the thought of nuclear power, the USAF had a B36, the 10 engined megabomber, with a 4kw reactor on board.

indian22 · Dec 14, 2018

Ludwig II said:
Going back to the steam plane and the thought of nuclear power, the USAF had a B36, the 10 engined megabomber, with a 4kw reactor on board.

Unfortunately the nuclear nations of the planet prefer the prospect of blowing things up rather than powering things up with nuclear energy Ludwig. The nuclear weapons continued to fly but the B36 power generator sits archived & undeveloped in one of our "secure locations". We weaponize so many of our truly marvelous technical innovations rather than use them to our mutual benefit....truly poor resource planning and management by those who would have us believe they are actual world leaders..

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 14, 2018

Steve the shops we've seen, many of which are & were amazing, but the ones that are really memorable are as those you describe . It's not just visual recollections, but you can actually smell, feel and hear the activity of those shops. Each type of shop be it woodworking, engine building, machine, welding & blacksmith services etc. was typical of it's category but each still unique. Tin smith's shop had to be a treat for you & others of like mind. I'm glad you got to experience it & he had the opportunity to share it with you.

Waning wistfully, Rick C.

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 14, 2018

fasteddy said:
I remember the Versk build Rick. It was the epitome of working with what you had in the space available and building a work of art. I recall that there was a rather good description of having to clean off his dryer after he spray painted his bike in the laundry room.

When I was building reproduction furniture and using antique wood to do it people who saw the furniture at antique shows would, it seems, assume that I had a workshop that rivaled Norm Abrams. The look on their faces when they stopped in to visit and saw what I worked with was priceless. Many of them were accomplished wood workers themselves with large shops.

In 2014 Silverbear and I stopped in to see Tinsmith in Maryland. Dan has since retired but he made colonial era reproduction lighting that wasn't really a reproduction as much as a continuation of the way it was made in the 1600 and 1700 hundreds. He did this out of his shop that had been his garage that was like stepping back in time to a shop of the era
. Virtually every tool was a hand operated antique and the lighting was cut out and formed and soldered by hand. If he hadn't said he made it I would have been sure it was original.
Dan and his wife Jackie attended many antique shows for and makers markets for many years. We got share show memories while we were there.

Most people would have had the metal cut in a big metal shop and worked from there but not Dan. Hand made was handmade and Dan wasn't about to compromise.

His bike was built with the same care and reviled his lighting for attention to detail.

So many excellent bikes have been built and displayed here on the forum. Built in basements, garages, spare rooms and back yards in all manner of weather with the tools and funds available. Each was was guided by the builders vision of what it should look like and the vision guided their hands.

Rick, thank you for the heartfelt offer. I'd love to hoist a pint with you as well but unfortunately that is a vague memory as well other than very special occasions and people over the years and that's ended with age and health.

A very large tea cup, black with honey has to suffice now. Leaning on the bed of a pickup watching the sun rise with a cup of tea in my hand doesn't have the same soul moving experience that tossing yet another empty beer can into the pile in the back of truck did but the memories are fresh as ever. The world moved in a much better orbit after those gatherings as it's problems were solved.

Going to be a bit more slow going for a week or so. House is full of flue victims and it's finally found me but so far it's just a bad cold.

Steve.

Steve, Flu almost killed me when pneumonia followed last year. Take care Amigo.

Mr.B. · Dec 15, 2018

Both Henry Ford and the Harley and Davidson boys launched empires in rotten old sheds!

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 15, 2018

I beg to differ Mr.B. the HD shed of 4" car siding and shows no decay. Chimney indicates wood or coal stove. The later I suspect, coal being cheap as it was what town homes were heated with. The HD boys would love my Modine heated shop.
Glad you responded to this thread Mr.B
I lost track of your awesome YouTube.and build.
Are you in Wisconsin too?
Tom from Rubicon

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 15, 2018

Glad you responded to this thread Mr.B
I lost track of your awesome YouTube.and build.
Are you in Wisconsin too?
Tom from Rubicon

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