Bolt instead of the stud
- Thread starter djtino
- Start date
Absolutely no reason you can't use a bolt. You're on the right track as for checking thread depth. To determine how long the bolt needs to be, back out the stud by double nutting it, measure how much thread was in the engine then purchase Allen head cap screws of the appropriate length. Use a good quality thread locking compound such as Lok-Tite and torque the bolt just enough to flatten the lock washer then a tiny bit more. You'll be in good shape. The same goes for all of the engine hardware including the mounting studs and intake manifold. I replace all studs with grade 8, Allen head cap screws. Ace hardware will have everything you need or any good fastener supply house.
Tom
Tom
I second that Tom! I change all the chinese studs with Allen head cap screws. I don't know what those studs are made of but I can't believe how soft they are and how easy the bend.
John
Exactly guys!!!
I've read a lot of posts regarding hardware over the past 6 months.
There have been a lot of thoughts, and theories, thrown about regarding proper hardware. It's a shame really; because it leads to a lot of confusion for those who are new.
There is the thought that that you don't want to use bolts, (instead of studs), because constantly running bolts in and out of Aluminum will wear out the threads. I have to ask: how often do you remove your intake or exhaust manifolds? How often do you remove the engine mounts? I have shop fixtures made from Aluminum that get fasteners removed and replaced many times per hour!!! Amazingly they still work, after 6 months use. Sure, it's true, the fixtures are made from from 6061-T6 mill material, and the engines are cast. With that said, the engine will be ready for the scrap heap long before you wear out the threads.
Then there's the Stainless thought! I'm not sure where this came from; but unless you have access to heat treated aerospace/military spec stainless fasteners...stainless IS NOT the way to go! Stainless all-thread would be almost as bad as what the Chinese supply as far as this application is concerned, especially for the engine mounts.
The grade 5 vs. grade 8 thought! Grade 8 hardware IS NOT so brittle that you're bike will fall apart due to fastener failure...In fact the opposite is true. Grade 8 fasteners are made from Chromoly, (4130, 4140), they are heat treated to 44-48 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Grade 8 fasteners are tough not brittle!
Grade 8 allen cap screws are the only way to go as far as fasteners for these engines are concerned.
Jim
I've read a lot of posts regarding hardware over the past 6 months.
There have been a lot of thoughts, and theories, thrown about regarding proper hardware. It's a shame really; because it leads to a lot of confusion for those who are new.
There is the thought that that you don't want to use bolts, (instead of studs), because constantly running bolts in and out of Aluminum will wear out the threads. I have to ask: how often do you remove your intake or exhaust manifolds? How often do you remove the engine mounts? I have shop fixtures made from Aluminum that get fasteners removed and replaced many times per hour!!! Amazingly they still work, after 6 months use. Sure, it's true, the fixtures are made from from 6061-T6 mill material, and the engines are cast. With that said, the engine will be ready for the scrap heap long before you wear out the threads.
Then there's the Stainless thought! I'm not sure where this came from; but unless you have access to heat treated aerospace/military spec stainless fasteners...stainless IS NOT the way to go! Stainless all-thread would be almost as bad as what the Chinese supply as far as this application is concerned, especially for the engine mounts.
The grade 5 vs. grade 8 thought! Grade 8 hardware IS NOT so brittle that you're bike will fall apart due to fastener failure...In fact the opposite is true. Grade 8 fasteners are made from Chromoly, (4130, 4140), they are heat treated to 44-48 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Grade 8 fasteners are tough not brittle!
Grade 8 allen cap screws are the only way to go as far as fasteners for these engines are concerned.
Jim
Jim & John,
I don't know where that 'stainless steel' myth came from either. I assume people get the idea that because it's hard to work with that stainless is tough. I've actually seen guys use stainless hardware on critical steering and suspension components on hot rods. They don't understand the difference between tensile & shear strength and hardness. The same goes for overdoing and using grade 9. Now we're starting to talk brittle. Grade 9 has it's uses but we're not there. Maybe if we keep harping on this the word will get around and these guys will be building safer and more reliable bikes. That said, I will agree that maybe grade 8 is a little overkill for bicycle purposes and grade 5 would suffice but I submit that a little extra strength verses the cost difference is well worth the investment.
Tom
I don't know where that 'stainless steel' myth came from either. I assume people get the idea that because it's hard to work with that stainless is tough. I've actually seen guys use stainless hardware on critical steering and suspension components on hot rods. They don't understand the difference between tensile & shear strength and hardness. The same goes for overdoing and using grade 9. Now we're starting to talk brittle. Grade 9 has it's uses but we're not there. Maybe if we keep harping on this the word will get around and these guys will be building safer and more reliable bikes. That said, I will agree that maybe grade 8 is a little overkill for bicycle purposes and grade 5 would suffice but I submit that a little extra strength verses the cost difference is well worth the investment.
Tom
The only time I use stainless is for cosmetic purposes where there is very little stress on the bolts.
Sometimes if I want a grade 8 stud instead of a bolt I will just buy the capscrews the length I want and cut the heads off althought sometimes it can be hard finding your longer bolts that are threaded all the way to the head.
John
Sometimes if I want a grade 8 stud instead of a bolt I will just buy the capscrews the length I want and cut the heads off althought sometimes it can be hard finding your longer bolts that are threaded all the way to the head.
John
On old Ford flatheads we used to put two studs in the block to "hang" the head on, then use cap screws to finish bolting the head down. We learned early on that torquing down a head with studs was no good since you are dealing with two sets of threads, the set in the block and the set in the nut. You can have the nut tight and the stud be loose. I agree with Jim, Allen screws are the way to go. Walter F.
