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KCvale

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
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Phoenix,AZ
Just a couple of notes on State laws, if a Bicycle requires registration, then an MB does too. One tip is to just print out your states statute that defines an MB and carry it with you.

Speaking of state laws I am proposing a change to Arizona's so please sign my petition, Petition for Change to AZ RS 28-2516
It doesn't matter if you live in AZ or not as you enter your zip code and I can sort out results by that.

Thanks for the support!
 
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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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Kahlas said:
Cops aren't superhuman, they can't sense when a store will be robbed. They stop the crimes they do see.
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Who said they are super human? My point was there are many many more important things for them to be doing other than chasing around bicycles, like solving crimes and preventing crimes comes to mind.
You seem to be h&ll bent on the idea that the law should be all over us with our little motors on our bikes, and cops should be tasked to make sure we all have our little plates and stickers. I think it is a waste of time and money for our law enforcement to be tasked with such trivial persuits...
 
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Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
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Illinois
I agree no cop should ever actively try and find every MB driver he can to enforce the law that the guy is violating. But cops stop the law breakers when they see them. And a person running down the road on an unplated MB is pretty hard to miss. I have no idea how my attempts to inform the those ignorant to Illinois MB laws can be construed as being "h&ll bent on the idea that the law should be all over" people riding them on roads or that they should be wasting time and money perusing the task of stopping people from riding illegally.

I've never seen someone so bent out of shape over someone trying to help people before till I started reading your posts.
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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Kahlas said:
I agree no cop should ever actively try and find every MB driver he can to enforce the law that the guy is violating. But cops stop the law breakers when they see them. And a person running down the road on an unplated MB is pretty hard to miss. I have no idea how my attempts to inform the those ignorant to Illinois MB laws can be construed as being "h&ll bent on the idea that the law should be all over" people riding them on roads or that they should be wasting time and money perusing the task of stopping people from riding illegally.

I've never seen someone so bent out of shape over someone trying to help people before till I started reading your posts.
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This has been a VERY ODD conversation here, as you are the one who seems bent out of shape saying we need to plate, register and insure our bikes.

I tend to believe that the section of the vehicle code in IL that was added specifically to address MB's indicates as long as you ride your MB in the same speed range as a bicycle (under 20MPH) you simply need to abide by the rules of the road that apply to bicycles, with the addition of the two extra rules that you need be 16 years old and not ride on the sidewalk.

So I see it differently, but you insist I am bent out of shape. I think as long as I ride under 20MPH, on the street and follow the rules for bicycles I will be ok. The cops that have seen me riding either seem to agree or apparently dont care, so neither do I....

Hope that was clear....
 
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Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
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Illinois
Yes you have clearly demonstrated your stubborn insistence of doing things your own way. I'm fine with you taking any risks you wanna take. However you're constant insistence that it's okay to do something that I've clearly show both the official laws/codes for and the pages on the Illinois dmv page that show the interpretation of the laws clear as day that ALL MB's need to be plated, titled, and insured is going to wind up getting someone else who listens to you in a world of hurt some day. Again not my problem I just can't stand someone who won't admit they are wrong in the face of clear evidence in a venue that people go to to look for information just because you what, feel it would be a sign of weakness? I don't care what you do just quit spilling out information you clearly are not informed about and wrong to boot on a site that's supposed to be here to inform people looking for information.

Go drive all you want man, I've said this time and again, I don't care what you do but the general reader here should be aware of the facts no opinions.
 
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SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
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Lake Worth
You didn't answer the question about..

Once you've titled (don't know how you title a BICYCLE - they don't have titles, duh), register (don't know how you register a BICYCLE without a VIN, Duh), and plate..
Can you now go over 20mph?!?
You see the thing is, there are two descriptors of law..
1.) What the law states. (Specifics, as to descriptions)
2.) What the law implies. (Otherwise known as "intent")

Why do you think they put a limit of 20mph on these bikes..
OBVIOUSLY, to KEEP them classified as bikes.. Why have licensing requirements on something that goes SLOWER than a regular bicycle can go..

Think about it..

Actually don't think about it... Just read this...

***
*(625 ILCS 5/1-146)**(from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1-146)
****Sec. 1-146. Motor vehicle. Every vehicle which is
self-propelled and every vehicle which is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails, except for vehicles moved solely by human power, and motorized wheelchairs, low-speed electric bicycles, and low-speed gas bicycles.
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There it is in black and white, right from the Illinois govt website..

Done, complete, finished.. Done deal. Stop with your incorrectness...
 
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K

Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
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Illinois
SANGESF, you just quoted a section that is a list of definitions for the rest of the laws, essentially you quoted part of a glossary to "prove your point"

and to answer your questions I have answered or posted the info that answers all your questions you need to learn to read but I'll summaries again.

You can apply for a title at the DMV, don't believe me then call one up tomorrow.
laws never "imply" anything. The 20 MPH low power EXCEPTION is an exception to the standard law that allows you to ride a bike on a sidewalk(i.e. you can't ride qualified MB on a sidewalk)
the exemption also allows for the operation of a qualified MB by persons of age 16 or older(note if says nothing about being exempt from needing a license.)
It lists the criteria for qualifying MB's as one that is not operated over 20 MPH on a roadway.
And finally is states that all normal bike laws also apply
 
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SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
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Lake Worth
You just don't give up, do you...
If a low powered gas or electric bike is NOT a motor vehicle...
There is no TITLE, REGISTRATION OR LICENSE NEEDED PERIOD!

You MUST be in law enforcement.. ONLY a law enforcement officer would not accept an explanation of a FACT to be contrary to what they THINK is the law... (i.e. "proving them wrong")

LOL... Give it up, I just showed you that a low powered bicycle (BY DEFINITION) is EXPLICITLY DESCRIBED AS NOT A MOTOR VEHICLE! What do you not get... I show you the law and you totally disregard it and talk about something else!

This is like arguing with my 15 y/o who thinks he knows everything or arguing with my ex about what I specifically say and what she THINKS I mean.
:-||
I give up.. Someone else explain it to this guy.. I don't even live in Illinois... I'm done with this thread.
 
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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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Kahlas said:
SANGESF, you just quoted a section that is a list of definitions for the rest of the laws, essentially you quoted part of a glossary to "prove your point"

and to answer your questions I have answered or posted the info that answers all your questions you need to learn to read but I'll summaries again.

You can apply for a title at the DMV, don't believe me then call one up tomorrow.
laws never "imply" anything. The 20 MPH low power EXCEPTION is an exception to the standard law that allows you to ride a bike on a sidewalk(i.e. you can't ride qualified MB on a sidewalk)
the exemption also allows for the operation of a qualified MB by persons of age 16 or older(note if says nothing about being exempt from needing a license.)
It lists the criteria for qualifying MB's as one that is not operated over 20 MPH on a roadway.
And finally is states that all normal bike laws also apply
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Honestly, you have your head all twisted up in law and you are not making any sense.

The law was written to make clear a low speed bicycle of any flavor is a BICYCLE, as long as it is under 20MPH it is a BICYCLE.

The 16 year old requirement is because it is LEGAL for ANY AGE to ride a bicycle WITHOUT a DL, thus it would be LEGAL for a small child to ride a MB (under 20MPH!) if they had not stipulated that you need be 16. So they did.

If you needed a DL to ride a MB they wouldn't have had to say you must be 16 years old to ride, since you need be that age to get a DL anyway. Instead, they would have stipulated what class DL you need to ride such a bicyle if that were the case. Since a MB is a bicycle, and you don't need a DL to ride a bicycle, they added the 16 year old age requirement. It should be pretty clear this was added because there is no DL requirement to ride a low speed MB since it is defined as a bicycle.

They also said it has to be on the street, not the sidewalk. Other than that it is a BICYCLE, so you can quote all the scooter, motorcycle and trailer laws you want, none of them apply to a BICYCLE.

Legislators make laws, courts interpret laws and cops enforce laws, not always do the cops see what the legislators intent was in a law. I honestly feel the intent of Section 11‑1516 of the IL Veh. Code that was added to address MBs was put there to make them legal and treated as bicycles as long as they are under 20MPH. Until a court says that is not the case I guess we don't really know how it would shake out, unless I guess we were to question the authors of the law...

Please just respect my freedom as an American to read the law and express my opinion here. A rose is a rose, as a bicycle is a bicycle is a bicycle..... is a bicycle.....
 
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Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
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Illinois
Like I said do whatever you guys want. The law says what the law says and I'm not going to try and convince you two of what's plain as day. When I do get my plates I'll go ahead and post some pics of the plates and title, maybe even the insurance statement. Cause the DMV will not let you plate something that doesn't require plating will they.
 
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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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Kahlas said:
Like I said do whatever you guys want. The law says what the law says and I'm not going to try and convince you two of what's plain as day. When I do get my plates I'll go ahead and post some pics of the plates and title, maybe even the insurance statement. Cause the DMV will not let you plate something that doesn't require plating will they.
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Please do post back and let us know how your day at the DMV goes...

PS Also, please have them tell you what class DL you need to ride a "low speed bicycle".
 
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Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
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Illinois
I don't own a low speed bike so not worried about it. I know I need a class D for my bike but my class A cdl will work also.
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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Kahlas said:
I don't own a low speed bike so not worried about it. I know I need a class D for my bike but my class A cdl will work also.
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I am not particularly interested in what DL YOU have, I want to know what class DL the DMV says a MB rider needs to have, since you insist we need one.

As for "Low Speed Bicycle", that is a direct reference to the law that governs MB's:

(625 ILCS 5/11‑1516)
Sec. 11‑1516. Low‑speed bicycles.
(a) A person may operate a low‑speed electric bicycle or low‑speed gas bicycle ...

Again, I am not particularly interested in what YOU ride, all I care is what the DMV says about riding a low‑speed gas bicycle , which is what I and most others in this forum ride. If you ride something different then maybe that's why we don't see eye to eye on this law.

Again, I am truly interested in what the DMV has to say to you about the VIN, Title, Registration & Plates, lights and safety equipment, Insurance and Drivers License class that are required to operate a MB. Sincerely.

That said, I am interested specifically in the answers to those questions as they pertain to a standard bicycle that is gas or electric motor assisted which travels at speeds under 20MPH. If you present a different scenario to the DMV then your findings will be irrelevant to this conversation.

Again, I am truly interested in what you find at the DMV when you present this scenario to them....
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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alfredov,
Yah, been there, posted that. Apparently that law applies to space ships or something other than gas powered bicycles.... lol
 
K

Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
72
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0
Illinois
nightcruiser said:
I am not particularly interested in what DL YOU have, I want to know what class DL the DMV says a MB rider needs to have, since you insist we need one.

As for "Low Speed Bicycle", that is a direct reference to the law that governs MB's:

(625 ILCS 5/11‑1516)
Sec. 11‑1516. Low‑speed bicycles.
(a) A person may operate a low‑speed electric bicycle or low‑speed gas bicycle ...

Again, I am not particularly interested in what YOU ride, all I care is what the DMV says about riding a low‑speed gas bicycle , which is what I and most others in this forum ride. If you ride something different then maybe that's why we don't see eye to eye on this law.

Again, I am truly interested in what the DMV has to say to you about the VIN, Title, Registration & Plates, lights and safety equipment, Insurance and Drivers License class that are required to operate a MB. Sincerely.

That said, I am interested specifically in the answers to those questions as they pertain to a standard bicycle that is gas or electric motor assisted which travels at speeds under 20MPH. If you present a different scenario to the DMV then your findings will be irrelevant to this conversation.

Again, I am truly interested in what you find at the DMV when you present this scenario to them....
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Already told you what they said previously, not going to repeat myself. Call them yourself and get the same answer I got.
 
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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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USA
Kahlas said:
Already told you what they said previously, not going to repeat myself. Call them yourself and get the same answer I got.
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You also told me "I don't own a low speed bike so not worried about it" so I don't know which version of the story you are talking about.

Trying to reason with you has turned out to be a bit like playing ping pong, only there is no fun involved. I suggest you do whatever you need to do with whatever you ride, and let the rest of us do what the law stipulates, which is ride at under 20MPH on the street...
 
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Kahlas

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
72
0
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Illinois
nightcruiser said:
I suggest you do whatever you need to do with whatever you ride, and let the rest of us do what the law stipulates, which is ride at under 20MPH on the street...
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I'm pretty sure at least 2 times now I've told you do what you want I don't care about your tickets and I'll do what I know is legal.
 
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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
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USA
Kahlas said:
I'm pretty sure at least 2 times now I've told you do what you want I don't care about your tickets and I'll do what I know is legal.
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It's all good then man! (p)
Like I said before, I'd still be interested in how your day at the DMV goes...
Take care....
 
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SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
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Lake Worth
Bet ya 10 bucks he's in law enforcement...
Typical law enforcement.... (Ya notice, he didn't acknowledge whether he was or not)
If you're SOO sure, you're right.. Call the DMV and report back what they say...
Bet you it's the same thing they told me, and I don't even live in IL. LOL!

(Just make sure you're up front and tell them that you have a low speed gas bike and do you need to title it, register it and get a plate for it. - Also, don't find a friend of yours that works for the DMV and have them lie for you, just to prove an (incorrect) point).
In other words don't use the word "moped", you HAVE to use the words "low-speed gas bicycle".
 
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nightcruiser

New Member
Mar 25, 2011
1,180
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USA
SANGESF said:
Bet ya 10 bucks he's in law enforcement...
Typical law enforcement.... (Ya notice, he didn't acknowledge whether he was or not)
If you're SOO sure, you're right.. Call the DMV and report back what they say...
Bet you it's the same thing they told me, and I don't even live in IL. LOL!

(Just make sure you're up front and tell them that you have a low speed gas bike and do you need to title it, register it and get a plate for it. - Also, don't find a friend of yours that works for the DMV and have them lie for you, just to prove an (incorrect) point).
In other words don't use the word "moped", you HAVE to use the words "low-speed gas bicycle".
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If he is a police officer then he should understand he is law ENFORCEMENT, not the "LAW". Legislators write the laws, courts interpret them, police just enforce the laws, hence the term Law Enforcement. Police officers don't make or even interpret laws. So the opinion of Law Enforcement only goes as far as what is written on the ticket, from there it is up to the prosecuting attorney and judge (and jury if the charges warrant a jury trial). I'm pretty certain a ticket for simply riding a MB legally (under 20MPH) would be tossed out and never prosecuted. If there are other tickets from the stop, such as DUI, I'm pretty sure the MB related charges would still be tossed and the DUI charges would be brought to court, cause you can still get a DUI on even a pedal bike.
 
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