Is this possible?

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foundmydog

foundmydog

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Oct 17, 2011
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Mechanical skills far outweigh my knowledge of electric motors and such, so here I ask....

Would it be possible to run this electric motor ( draws 12.8 amps at full load ) and it is model number # 5990K52 which is 1 horsepower

McMaster-Carr

Off of this generator which provides a 20 amp draw and 900 watt output

800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Generator

Thinking of mounting the generator and motor on a push trailer and running the motor via jackshaft for proper gearing

What I need to know is....

* Will the engine run off of this generator?

* motor shaft is keyed 5/8" so sprockets would be no problem for gearing down?

* If this is possible, how would I add some kind of speed control ( throttle??? ) for speed control?


All ideas and thoughts are appreciated...
 
iflyos

iflyos

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No...it won't work. 800 watts at 120 volts is only 6.5 amps.
To determine current when you only know power (watts) and voltage, you divide the wattage by the voltage to get current...

As an aside, I have used one of those gensets for 3 years now to power my airplane field gear, and it has been great...but I haven't run it at it's limits full time either.

I assume you are looking for tourqe from 0 rpm up, thats why you are looking to go this route? Elsewise you would be better off just to use an engine only and skip the generator head and the AC motor..It is much more efficent in terms of fuel consumption to just "go direct"

Tim
 
foundmydog

foundmydog

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happyvalley said:
Not clear



What drives the pusher?



Why gearing? I thought the beauty of an electric was it pulled the same torque @ 1 rpm or 1000?
Click to expand...


The pusher would be the driven wheel from the electric motor

As for gearing, I am not electric savy, this is why I asked if I needed gearing or not... still have never used an electric motor on a bicycle yet, but hopefully soon!
 
foundmydog

foundmydog

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iflyos said:
No...it won't work. 800 watts at 120 volts is only 6.5 amps.
To determine current when you only know power (watts) and voltage, you divide the wattage by the voltage to get current...

As an aside, I have used one of those gensets for 3 years now to power my airplane field gear, and it has been great...but I haven't run it at it's limits full time either.

I assume you are looking for tourqe from 0 rpm up, thats why you are looking to go this route? Elsewise you would be better off just to use an engine only and skip the generator head and the AC motor..It is much more efficent in terms of fuel consumption to just "go direct"

Tim
Click to expand...

Tim...

On the specs for the generator it says output is 800 watts, 120 volts, and 20 ampes... are they bending the truth here saying that?


Along the lines of this project, this is a 1/2 horsepower motor which draws 6.8 ampes at full load

McMaster-Carr

Could this be possible?

Would this be powerful enough?


I've been in the MB hobby for many years now... built HT's, friction drives, rack mount, chain drives, pushers, and etc.... Just wanted to broaden my horizons so to say and enter an electric version!

I know a gas engine would be simpler and more efficient... I was looking for something to stand out and be unique in a world of clones
 
wayne z

wayne z

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I like your idea about electromotive propulsion. I too have been contemplating experimenting with this idea.

You would need to use a universal type motor. That is the motors that have brushes like skillsaws, angle grinders ect. The inducton type motor is not a good or easy candidate for varaible speed. Then you can use generator throttle for speed control.

I would choose a motor with a slightly smaller watt/amp rating than the max continuos rating of the generator.
 
iflyos

iflyos

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Yep..they are stretching the specs! There is no combination of 800-900 watts and 120 volts that will get you 20 amps...it is mathematically impossible

While the 1/2 horse motor is better suited to this genset, you still would be pushing it. Motors are rated at the "running" current. The "starting" current can easily be twice as high as the running current...

For longevity, you don't want to run a genset at it's limit...though you can catch these on sale for 89 bucks....so you won't be out allot when it goes.

IMHO you would be better served to look for a universal motor that draws 3"ish" amps. As already mentioned universal motors are easier to start than induction motors, and you could use a router speed control on it...

Router Speed Control

I am looking forward to what you come up with!.trlrl.

foundmydog said:
Tim...

On the specs for the generator it says output is 800 watts, 120 volts, and 20 ampes... are they bending the truth here saying that?


Along the lines of this project, this is a 1/2 horsepower motor which draws 6.8 ampes at full load

McMaster-Carr

Could this be possible?

Would this be powerful enough?


I've been in the MB hobby for many years now... built HT's, friction drives, rack mount, chain drives, pushers, and etc.... Just wanted to broaden my horizons so to say and enter an electric version!

I know a gas engine would be simpler and more efficient... I was looking for something to stand out and be unique in a world of clones
Click to expand...
 
foundmydog

foundmydog

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iflyos said:
IMHO you would be better served to look for a universal motor that draws 3"ish" amps. As already mentioned universal motors are easier to start than induction motors, and you could use a router speed control on it...

Router Speed Control

I am looking forward to what you come up with!.trlrl.
Click to expand...

Tim...

I am open to any motor that would work, those just happened to be ones I came across that I thought could work... but keep in mind my electrical knowledge is of simple basic knowledge

That speed control would work nicely attached to the handlebars... and as you mentioned those gennies go on sale for $89 all the time near me, so replacement is acceptable over the course of time

Could I ask you to point me to a site that would have a universal motor you speak of? Maybe a link or two as to what you mean?

Once again, thank you for your insight and time in answering...

Steve
 
iflyos

iflyos

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Universal AC/DC Motors - Definite Purpose Motors - Grainger Industrial Supply

I am betting a 1/2hp motor will be the most you can run from that generator..

Still, universal motors are high RPM motors, so you will be able to gear it down and hopefully make it useful.

You need to determine what the max speed you want is, then decide what size tires you are gonna use on the push trailer. At that point you can look at gearing, based of course on the shaft speed of the motor you choose..

Tim
 
wayne z

wayne z

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I would try a 4" angle grinder. They have a 5 to 1 reduction built in and would be easy to mount a sprocket on. And they're cheap at the same store that sells the cheap jenny.

It's possible that you wouldn't need the router control. Just use throttle for power just like locomotive train engines do with their large generators that power their wheels.
 
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iflyos

iflyos

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Good point Wayne..an angle grinder would be a cheap way to try it out. Plus, if it doesn't work, you get to add another tool to the collection!
 
Dan

Dan

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Very cool! I have been wondering about this concept for a while and am greatly looking forward to seeing what ya come up with.
 
wayne z

wayne z

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Try to think outside the box some and it it aint that hard to figure out this stuff.
Just weld a nut accuratly to the center of the sprocket and screw it on with permanant type loctite, or drill and tap the grinder shaft for a bolt and washer to keep the nut from unscrewing when decellerating.
Cant find a nut? look for a wire wheel or abrasive wheel that fits the 5/8 threads of the grinder that has a steel nut, and cut it off.
 
wayne z

wayne z

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if ya want to experiment with fricton drive, just screw on one of these.
DSC_1647.JPG


BTW I thinl 5/8-11 is a standard coarse nut from the hdw store.

No reason why you couldn't mount the grinder on the bike instead of the trailer either.
 
foundmydog

foundmydog

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Thinking I am getting close to a point of diminishing returns with this idea...

With the cheap gennie, I can only run a small motor of 1/2 horsepower or less

1/2 horsepower is equal to about 350 watts or so, if my math is correct

I weigh in about 210 pounds, bicycle about 30 pounds, trailer about 25 pounds, gennie about 39 pounds

The rig with rider would weigh iin about ~ 304 pounds.... power by a 1/2HP or less.... I know gearing is everything, but diminishing returns outweigh gearing

Yes, it would be a one off and cool looking and all, but no resale value trying to sell it

The grinder would be the cheap way to try it.... may start off with a grinder and the router control and see if I can find a way of semi=permanently mounting a sprocket or friction wheel to it

Total initial starting cost would be less then $50 in parts
 
wayne z

wayne z

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I would try a fricton wheel. you may be suprised at the performance. the gearing would right with a fricton wheel. With a sprocket, it would have to be as large as the rim to have a good ratio.

The fricton drive is very simple to apply and maintain.

I would try it without the router control first. You can add it later if it needs it.
Pretty sure throttle control and a master switch would do the job.With a low power motor you might even get by with continuos genny and just an on/off handlebar switch

Weight doesn't affect level top speed much, just the time it takes to get there.
 
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Dan

Dan

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Not for nutton' but when I have a FD thought or question, I look up Wayne and Cannonball's posts. Some amazing work.

Just sayin'
 
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