Hi to all at motorbicycling.com. I've been riding for about 2 years have earned 3 tickets, all 3 were automobile fines. Up here in Canada cars appear to rule. There appears to be the thought that a engine is a motor to which it is not. A bicycle with a engine or a motor is still a bicycle or some call them Power Assist Bicycles. This appears to be the main issue up here on Vancouver Island. These PAB's are labeled as Limited speed cycles; yet, to ride these cycles(no pedals) one needs a drivers license and insurance. LSC also have a speed range up to 78kmh or just under 50mph. If my PAB runs out of gas it still rides like a bicycle and can still be ticketed as a bicycle. To my point if anyone is ticket my suggestion is to happily take the ticket, thank the officer and say, "see you in court". My last ticket was a $598. fine for not having insurance; eventhough, no insurance company will insure a PAB and the police know that. If by chance the fining officer does show request to file a full disclosure document. One of the questions could be where does it state that a bicycle with power assist is not a bicycle and is not governed by bicycle laws. As we all know bicyclists have less rights on the roads we have been forced to ride on not drive on. Not once out of the 3 tickets did the ticketing show. Thanks for letting me put my 48ccents worth in... Ride well and safe. Davido over and out.
New to site; but not to PAB's...
- Thread starter Davido
- Start date
Did you attend court and defend yourself against that ticket? What was the outcome?
At this point in time only 1 Canadian province, Nova Scotia, has specific legal definitions and rules with regards to a typical bicycle that has been modified with the addition of an engine kit.
It's not a stretch to ask the court in your province, since your province has no specific rules or regulations regarding modified bicycles, to consider that your modified bicycle is not a motor vehicle (as implied by the police officer that issued the tickets) when another Canadian province would consider your modified bicycle to be just a "bicycle" for which motor vehicle operation rules and regulations do not apply.
.
Hi Davido, welcome, glad to hear of your successes.
Rockentstein, that's good to know about NS if anyone needs to 'site precedence' when fighting a ticket. But doesn't Alberta have a 'legal definition' now too? I thought I read that somewhere.
Where I am(Wallaceburg), I make sure I'm legal for a bicycle; lights, mirror, bell, hand signals, no riding on sidewalks, plus a DOT Helmet. The girls think I look like a dork, but the Leo's don't look at me twice.
Besides, girls are more expensive than tickets, heh heh.
Rockentstein, that's good to know about NS if anyone needs to 'site precedence' when fighting a ticket. But doesn't Alberta have a 'legal definition' now too? I thought I read that somewhere.
Where I am(Wallaceburg), I make sure I'm legal for a bicycle; lights, mirror, bell, hand signals, no riding on sidewalks, plus a DOT Helmet. The girls think I look like a dork, but the Leo's don't look at me twice.
Besides, girls are more expensive than tickets, heh heh.They used too but their acts were updated a year or so ago and the definition was removed.
Davido, did you look up the I.C.B.C. web site? They spell out the difference between Pedal Assisted Bicycle and a Limited Speed Motorcycle.
Nova Scotia
In Nova Scotia power-assisted bicycles are classified similarly to standard pedal bicycles. The Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act defines a power-assisted bicycle as a bicycle with an electric motor of 500 watts or less, with two wheels (one of which is at least 350 mm) or four wheels (two of which are at least 350mm). PABs are permitted on the road in the province of Nova Scotia as long as you wear an approved bicycle helmet with the chinstrap engaged. They do not have to meet the conditions defined within the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations for a motorcycle(they are not classed as “motor vehicles”), but they do have to comply with federal regulations that define Power Assisted Bicycles.
As of October 23, 2010
Steve.
Nova Scotia
In Nova Scotia power-assisted bicycles are classified similarly to standard pedal bicycles. The Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act defines a power-assisted bicycle as a bicycle with an electric motor of 500 watts or less, with two wheels (one of which is at least 350 mm) or four wheels (two of which are at least 350mm). PABs are permitted on the road in the province of Nova Scotia as long as you wear an approved bicycle helmet with the chinstrap engaged. They do not have to meet the conditions defined within the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations for a motorcycle(they are not classed as “motor vehicles”), but they do have to comply with federal regulations that define Power Assisted Bicycles.
As of October 23, 2010
Steve.
Here is the act as the Canadian Government passed it. Can't find where it has been amended anywhere.
Check to see what your Province says.
Canada Gazette - 11:03pm11 Apr 2001 ... A power-assisted bicycle should require the use of pedals in order to be .... New Brunswick, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Saskatchewan, ...
Canada Gazette/Gazette du Canada › ... › 1998-2007 › Part II: 2001 › 2001-04-11 - Cached
Check to see what your Province says.
Canada Gazette - 11:03pm11 Apr 2001 ... A power-assisted bicycle should require the use of pedals in order to be .... New Brunswick, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Saskatchewan, ...
Canada Gazette/Gazette du Canada › ... › 1998-2007 › Part II: 2001 › 2001-04-11 - Cached
Well I checked to see if that worked and it didn't.
Here is how I found it if you can't. I googled,
"Power assisted motor bicycle laws in Nova Scotia"
and when it came up I went to page 2 and you will find the site I put in above.
Steve.
Here is how I found it if you can't. I googled,
"Power assisted motor bicycle laws in Nova Scotia"
and when it came up I went to page 2 and you will find the site I put in above.
Steve.
Interesting reading because they tell you how they made their decision but if you don't want to, this was in the text. I.C.B.C. is the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia. A government agency who runs the auto insurance in B.C.
The ICBC and Ford Motor Company raised questions regarding the use of power sources other than an electric motor. Ford pointed out that the proposed definition excluded solar-powered methods of propulsion and low-emission combustion engines. The ICBC wondered whether the amendment would allow the use of hybrid systems that combine an electric motor with a combustion engine. The final definition was clarified to eliminate all ambiguity. An important goal of this amendment is to provide a safe, viable, and non-polluting alternative to conventional means of transportation. This alternative means must also perform on a level comparable to that of the average cyclist using a conventional bicycle. A bicycle equipped with an electric motor meets these conditions. Bicycles equipped with a combustion engine are subject to the requirements governing limited-speed motorcycles or motorcycles. The Department will consider amending the definition when other pollution-free power sources become available, at which time it will analyze the impact of such new power sources on the safety of riders and the public.
Steve.
The ICBC and Ford Motor Company raised questions regarding the use of power sources other than an electric motor. Ford pointed out that the proposed definition excluded solar-powered methods of propulsion and low-emission combustion engines. The ICBC wondered whether the amendment would allow the use of hybrid systems that combine an electric motor with a combustion engine. The final definition was clarified to eliminate all ambiguity. An important goal of this amendment is to provide a safe, viable, and non-polluting alternative to conventional means of transportation. This alternative means must also perform on a level comparable to that of the average cyclist using a conventional bicycle. A bicycle equipped with an electric motor meets these conditions. Bicycles equipped with a combustion engine are subject to the requirements governing limited-speed motorcycles or motorcycles. The Department will consider amending the definition when other pollution-free power sources become available, at which time it will analyze the impact of such new power sources on the safety of riders and the public.
Steve.
Nice Wiki copy and paste there Steve.
Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You shouldn't misinform people by copying and pasting erroneous 3rd party information! If you want the real info to read and post on here the Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act that's been posted on the www by the Nova Scotia Government would be the proper place to start.
And again in Nova Scotia...
so technically in canada its only a PAB if you're using the pedals at all times right?
does using them as a foot rest count as using them?
does using them as a foot rest count as using them?
Rockenstien, You better go back and look up the site that you got your information from. You need to check the date at the bottom of the header. It's not 1989 any more. Your posting old, outdated laws as fact.
The information I posted was from the Canada Gazette which is where the Canadian Government posts all new changes in the law. Your information was good at the time they posted it but was set aside when the new laws were enacted in 2001 which I posted.
This info was not from Wikipedia. They are not the most accurate and I never use them.
Since you have time on your hands look up the site I mentioned or are you afraid of the facts that don't fit you story line.
As you said in an earlier post you are an arm chair lawyer and when you get in front of an arm chair judge you will have a chance.
When some poor rider gets in front of a judge faced with charges of being in control of an unlicenced, uninsured, unregistered motor vehicle that doesn't have the proper lights, brakes and warning devises attached and they don't have the right drivers licence to operate that vehicle I'm sure you will bring your knowledge to defend them
They can only hope they have an arm chair judge.
Steve.
The information I posted was from the Canada Gazette which is where the Canadian Government posts all new changes in the law. Your information was good at the time they posted it but was set aside when the new laws were enacted in 2001 which I posted.
This info was not from Wikipedia. They are not the most accurate and I never use them.
Since you have time on your hands look up the site I mentioned or are you afraid of the facts that don't fit you story line.
As you said in an earlier post you are an arm chair lawyer and when you get in front of an arm chair judge you will have a chance.
When some poor rider gets in front of a judge faced with charges of being in control of an unlicenced, uninsured, unregistered motor vehicle that doesn't have the proper lights, brakes and warning devises attached and they don't have the right drivers licence to operate that vehicle I'm sure you will bring your knowledge to defend them
They can only hope they have an arm chair judge.
Steve.
Matthurd, According to the Federal guidelines in Canada it's only a PAB if you have an electric motor attached. Attach a gas motor and you have a limited speed motor cycle.
Steve.
Steve.
The motor vehicle act information I quoted and the motor vehicle act document I linked to is located on the Nova Scotia Legislature website! Pretty much where all of Nova Scotia's laws would have been conceived, debated, passed, repealed etc me thinks so I'm very confident that what I have posted is fact.
As for the 1989 date well it's common knowledge isn't it that some acts or whatever in many of our provinces were originally written decades ago. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was any of our provinces. Really though If you would have read everything instead of just reading what you wanted to see you'd have noticed the amendment dates which shows that the act has been amended many time over the years.
As well Steve at the end of the act it says...
The "Created February 24, 2010" part says to me that the document is relatively current but hey if your in doubt click that email link and ask them if that really is the current Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
Good grief are we going to go down that road again? Any of our provinces could amend one of it's acts and allow jet turbine propelled donkey carts on their roads and the federal government would have squat to say about it. Seriously that's really the way it is Steve but there is a gotcha to that in that the federal government does control what gets imported into the country so if the feds ban the importation of small jet turbines and donkey carts we obviously would be stuck riding cartless donkeys
.
That's just not true and there is not one legal document in any of our provinces that says such a thing Steve.
The federal laws are there for a reason. As a guide line for the provinces to follow. They can tighten the laws or refuse to allow in our case, motor bikes, in any town, city or province if the province wishes to but they have to follow the governments rules.
When they say no gas motors on a bicycle the provinces can't say yes. Alberta is a good example.
Steve.
When they say no gas motors on a bicycle the provinces can't say yes. Alberta is a good example.
Steve.
Rockenstein, got some questions for you since you've delved into this.
Did you read the Canada Gazzette page that I posted?
Why do you think that the feds spent all that time and tax dollars to give a legal definition to Pedal Assisted Bikes.
Who do you think the Federal laws are for?
Why is it that any province I look up a PAB is an electric bike.
Why does every e-bike seller that shows provincial laws on their web sites, the provincial laws say that a PAB is an E-bike?
Looking forward to your answers.
Steve.
Did you read the Canada Gazzette page that I posted?
Why do you think that the feds spent all that time and tax dollars to give a legal definition to Pedal Assisted Bikes.
Who do you think the Federal laws are for?
Why is it that any province I look up a PAB is an electric bike.
Why does every e-bike seller that shows provincial laws on their web sites, the provincial laws say that a PAB is an E-bike?
Looking forward to your answers.
Steve.
The Canadian federal Government says no gas motors on PAB's. Guess you didn't read the gov. site.
Steve.
Steve.
I don't know about anyone else but my modified pedal powered bicycle wasn't manufactured as a PAB, was never marketed as a PAB, was never intended to be a PAB after modification etc etc so how you figure the feds PAB definition is applicable is beyond me.
Anyway tis not the season to argue law and politics with a brick...
Seasons greetings Steve
Anyway tis not the season to argue law and politics with a brick...
Seasons greetings Steve
