My Current Problem

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Ratt_Bones

Ratt_Bones

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Aug 2, 2013
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Appleton, Wi.
AVroman said:
I am new here and this is my first post. I will go back and do an intro later but for now I need your help.

Here is a link to the youtube video that shows my current situation. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a4ffXAjroM
Click to expand...

It seems that you are missing your set screw for your clutch adjustment. It may have rattled out. The big flower looking nut in the center there may have backed out significantly as a result. Causing your clutch to fail to engage. Give that big flower looking nut a few turns clockwise until you feel some engagement. After you find the "sweet" spot, you're going to have to replace the locking set screw (the threaded hole next to it)

Hope this helps.
 
A

AVroman

New Member
Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
Ratt_Bones said:
It seems that you are missing your set screw for your clutch adjustment. It may have rattled out. The big flower looking nut in the center there may have backed out significantly as a result. Causing your clutch to fail to engage. Give that big flower looking nut a few turns clockwise until you feel some engagement. After you find the "sweet" spot, you're going to have to replace the locking set screw (the threaded hole next to it)

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I have the set screw out right now because I was working on the clutch. The flower locking nut is in all the way and the rear wheel still moves freely with the clutch lever out.
 
crassius

crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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I'd first look at the drive sprocket - if the end of the shaft turns there while the sprocket doesn't, you've sheared the woodruff key under that sprocket - if the shaft doesn't turn there, you've sheared the key under the clutch
 
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AVroman

New Member
Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
crassius said:
I'd first look at the drive sprocket - if the end of the shaft turns there while the sprocket doesn't, you've sheared the woodruff key under that sprocket - if the shaft doesn't turn there, you've sheared the key under the clutch
Click to expand...
The drive sprocket turns when the chain is moving but the gears on the right side do not when I turn the rear wheel.

Either way it sounds like I will need to get a woodruff key.

Also, is there anywhere explaining how to replace one?

EDIT: Found that the local ACE carries woodruff keys. Now the questions are, what size to I need for the application, and what gear on the right side do I need to remove, the big clutch gear or the smaller gear that is connected to the crank?
 
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crassius

crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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sounds like the sprocket turns, but the shaft doesn't, so you need the one on that side - take off the sprocket and see if some of the key is still there to see the width, otherwise take the sprocket to the store and fit ti the slot in it

check that the shaft is not turning first tho, as then it would be the other side that's bad
 
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AVroman

New Member
Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
crassius said:
sounds like the sprocket turns, but the shaft doesn't, so you need the one on that side - take off the sprocket and see if some of the key is still there to see the width, otherwise take the sprocket to the store and fit ti the slot in it

check that the shaft is not turning first tho, as then it would be the other side that's bad
Click to expand...
I am not sure that I understand what you are saying.

Right now when I spin the rear wheel the motor does not want to start. I can pedal the bike with the clutch lever in or out.

Then I remove the right side of the motor and the small gear is still operated by the crankshaft, ie the head moves when I rotate the small gear.

The large gear does not seem to be connected to the shaft that is connected to the three pegs, ie when I rotate the three pegs, the outer gear does not move with it. Also when the rear wheel is being rotated the drive sprocket on the motor does spin but the shaft that is connected to the three pegs does not move either.

It is this combination of things that has me stumped on how to fix it.

Hopefully this helps to come up with a solution.
 
crassius

crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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that's not what the vid shows - there, the plate with 3 pegs turns with the big gear

start here:

there is a shaft with a sprocket on one end & a clutch on the other end

both the clutch & the sprocket are attached to the shaft with a slot & key setup

if both keys are there & working, when the sprocket turns the shaft will turn and the plate with 3 pegs will turn - if the clutch is good, then the plate will also turn the big gear

if you can't see well enough to tell if the shaft is turning, then take off both the sprocket & the clutch to see if the keys are there
 
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AVroman

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Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
crassius said:
that's not what the vid shows - there, the plate with 3 pegs turns with the big gear

start here:

there is a shaft with a sprocket on one end & a clutch on the other end

both the clutch & the sprocket are attached to the shaft with a slot & key setup

if both keys are there & working, when the sprocket turns the shaft will turn and the plate with 3 pegs will turn - if the clutch is good, then the plate will also turn the big gear

if you can't see well enough to tell if the shaft is turning, then take off both the sprocket & the clutch to see if the keys are there
Click to expand...
After adjusting the flower nut, I am back to the point where I took the video.

Now, when I spin the rear wheel the chain moves the sprocket on the left side of the motor and the shaft with the three pegs turns as well, the big gear does not though. That situation is with the clutch lever pulled in.

When I release the clutch lever and roll the rear wheel the chain still drives the rear sprocket, but the three pegs don't spin, neither does the big gear.

I am still stumped on how to fix this, but hopefully this explanation helps come up with a solution.
 
crassius

crassius

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Sep 30, 2012
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OK, still sounds like a bad key - when the sprocket turns, does the nut holding it turn also? That nut is on the shaft, so if it turns, then the shaft is turning with the sprocket and the problem is the key under the clutch on the other side (or the shaft is broken in the middle which doesn't usually happen)

if so, take off the clutch and check the key
 
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AVroman

New Member
Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
crassius said:
OK, still sounds like a bad key - when the sprocket turns, does the nut holding it turn also? That nut is on the shaft, so if it turns, then the shaft is turning with the sprocket and the problem is the key under the clutch on the other side (or the shaft is broken in the middle which doesn't usually happen)

if so, take off the clutch and check the key
Click to expand...
I am unable to check to see if when the sprocket turns is the nut also turns with it.

When installing the motor, one of the bolts to the clutch arm cover got stripped and I have been unable to get it out.

I am going to pull of the clutch to check the woodruff key tomorrow morning, hopefully that is the problem with it and not something more serious.
 
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AVroman

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Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
crassius said:
try a hand impact driver to get the drive cover off
Click to expand...
I don't have one at the moment, I am planning on purchasing more tools to work on the motor when I get paid on Thursday. Until then I will have to continue work on the right side only.

I am currently in contact with the ebay seller that I bought the kit from. I am trying to return the motor and get a new one but they are almost impossible to get a point across to when they barely speak english.

I made another video to show them because they asked for proof of the damage before sending it in. Hopefully they realize that there is a problem with it and I can get a new motor.

Another comment on the first video that I posed was that new clutch pads may help, would you recommend doing that, or just try to fix the current problem at hand?
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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It sounds to me like a woodruff key is sheered, either on the big gear side or behind the motor sprocket. If I had to guess I would say it is under the motor sprocket, which isn't all that uncommon to happen, specially if your motor is running rough and jerky, or if you drop the clutch rapidly/often, or if the nut on the sprocket is a little loose. When you drop the clutch to start the motor it jerks that sprocket one way, when the motor pulls the chain it jerks it the other way. Too much jerking back and forth (and/or a loose nut on the sprocket) can cause that woodruff key to sheer.

There is a bar inside the clutch that links one side to the other (somewhere in this forum there is a post that shows a nice picture of a clutch all taken apart so you can see how it all fits together), if both woodruff keys are intact then it would have to be that bar that is bad, but I would definitely put my money on a woodruff key as the failure, probably under the drive sprocket. Try using a wider screwdriver on the screw to get it loose, you need to be able to remove that cover to do general maintenance......
 
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AVroman

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Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
nightcruiser said:
It sounds to me like a woodruff key is sheered, either on the big gear side or behind the motor sprocket. If I had to guess I would say it is under the motor sprocket, which isn't all that uncommon to happen, specially if your motor is running rough and jerky, or if you drop the clutch rapidly/often, or if the nut on the sprocket is a little loose. When you drop the clutch to start the motor it jerks that sprocket one way, when the motor pulls the chain it jerks it the other way. Too much jerking back and forth (and/or a loose nut on the sprocket) can cause that woodruff key to sheer.

There is a bar inside the clutch that links one side to the other (somewhere in this forum there is a post that shows a nice picture of a clutch all taken apart so you can see how it all fits together), if both woodruff keys are intact then it would have to be that bar that is bad, but I would definitely put my money on a woodruff key as the failure, probably under the drive sprocket. Try using a wider screwdriver on the screw to get it loose, you need to be able to remove that cover to do general maintenance......
Click to expand...
I am going to get a screw/bolt extractor kit when I get paid so that I can get the stripped bolt out to replace it. When I do get it out, I will be able to check for the woodruff key on that side of the motor.

Tomorrow, I am going to check on the right side of the motor for the woodruff key for the big gear.

Until I can get the left side cover off, I will not be able to diagnose or fix it if I am missing the woodruff key on that side.

I am still in contact with the seller, mingsinternational, and they want me to send back the entire kit. I am not willing to do that as the problem is with only one piece of the kit. Hopefully I can fix the problem myself within the week.

I would suggest not buying from that seller due to very poor customer service. They can barely speak english and are unwilling to negotiate a return of the motor only. I wish that I had waited to leave feedback as I would now like to leave negative rather than the positive I left after I got the motor installed.
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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It seems silly to send back "the whole kit" since you have obviously already built the bike, none of the parts are "new" any more and it's a waist of time to disassemble everything. He wont just send you the motor?

All that aside, I really think your issues start with that stripped screw, and underneath that there is a sheered woodruff key. So the simplest thing to do really is get that screw extracted and then go from there, you could be up and running in no time if you can accomplish that... Shipping/Swapping motors is gonna be the long and hard route to take it seems....
 
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AVroman

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Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
nightcruiser said:
It seems silly to send back "the whole kit" since you have obviously already built the bike, none of the parts are "new" any more and it's a waist of time to disassemble everything. He wont just send you the motor?

All that aside, I really think your issues start with that stripped screw, and underneath that there is a sheered woodruff key. So the simplest thing to do really is get that screw extracted and then go from there, you could be up and running in no time if you can accomplish that... Shipping/Swapping motors is gonna be the long and hard route to take it seems....
Click to expand...
At least another human realizes the same thing that I do, there is absolutely no point in sending back the entire kit. It is just a major waste of time. Not to mention, the seller wants the items back in the same packaging that it cam in. I don't know anyone who would keep a plain cardboard box for over 3 weeks with nothing in it. I am beginning to wonder if the seller is serious or not.

I do have other bikes to ride until I can get the motorbike fixed so that is not really an issue, but I just wish I could fix it today rather than next weekend.
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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Well, if he sends you another complete kit, THEN you have all the packaging (and parts) to send back to him with the problematic motor..... but he would either have to trust you to send back the bad kit, or you are going have to pay for a new kit and trust he will refund your money when he gets back the bad kit... seems a pretty silly way to go... If it were me I'd just get that screw extracted and forget about all that mess...
 
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AVroman

New Member
Oct 4, 2013
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Daytona FL
nightcruiser said:
Well, if he sends you another complete kit, THEN you have all the packaging (and parts) to send back to him with the problematic motor..... but he would either have to trust you to send back the bad kit, or you are going have to pay for a new kit and trust he will refund your money when he gets back the bad kit... seems a pretty silly way to go... If it were me I'd just get that screw extracted and forget about all that mess...
Click to expand...
The seller is finally allowing me to send back just the motor. It only took about 20 messages. Absolutely ridiculous.

I am still going to try to fix it, but if I can't at least now I can send back just the motor.
 
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