2 stroke vs 4 stroke

I'm inclined to agree. The two cycle engines simply look better. That being said, I'll always sacrifice looks for function.

Yet I'm still a 2 stroke guy. The reason is price. The china girl's and their parts are so inexpensive that I just don't care if they don't last. I'll replace them.

I've always felt like 2 strokes are for dirt bikes and four strokes are for the street. The reality is that they both work well on dirt and pavement. I went 2 stroke because they are a little lighter.

Power to weight is the deciding factor for me.
On bigger 'real' bikes I like 4 strokes, with the low down grunt of a big single or a twin.
But on a push bike, a well tuned 2 stroke is a real 'buzz', As I'm sure a larger 4 stroke 'predy' motor can be, however putting something that heavy in a pushbike? Plus the expense of drive train.
On a motorized push bike I want to be able to do at least 60 Km/hr, I want to still be able to lift the bike, and I want to do it all for a couple of hundred bucks.
If I wanted to spend a grand or more on a bike, I'd get a 4 stroke motorcycle, with real suspension.

2-Stroke

Pros:
Cheap, small and light.
Designed to be put on a bicycle.
Good low end performance.
Will connect directly to output drive sprocket via the internal gear reduction.
Disposable.

Cons:
Won't run on regular gas and mixture is important.
Dirty.
Not good for long rides in hot weather.
Vibrations.
Requires bump start and manual clutch.
Generally always need some kind of maintenance.
Do not meet EPA clean air rules.

4-Stoke

Pros:
Has motor oil so they run on regular gas.
They will run day after day all day long in the sun.
Relatively clean.
Pull start and centrifugal automatic clutch.
EPA certified.

Cons:
More expensive, big and heavy.
Require external gear reduction system to drive sprocket.
Not very quick off the line.

It's kinda like this........

(1) There's "mustard" people.

(2) There's "mayo" people.

(3) There's a few that like both.

(4) Most times you're unlikely to change the opinion of #'s 1 or 2.


(Don't even get me started on "ketchup"............)

There are better engines out there than a cheep thrill Happy Time. IME Yes even a two Stroke.
The thing I find is how many folks are experts on two stroke engines because they had experiance with a AKA Happy Time motor . Well they are a hobby engine meant to be worked on. lol Everything in this game is meant to be worked on. You get what you pay for. Nutton is ever free. lol

Bottom line both types of engines Four or Two can be great engines. It is what one makes of it. I can run ether type engine and make them last to get years of satisfaction.

Of my preferance two stroke becouse it is lighter, compact, and in weight always will produce more horse power pound for pound. To get the same power you need a four stroke twice the size cc wise.

No four stroke will cruise about slowly 10mph or 50 mph as well as what I have, or out launch me off the line as my little 49cc Italian Morini. IME. More especially with the same cc cylinder size. It can rev about 4000 rpms faster than it's comparison ''four''cc wise.

No valves to adjust and better air flow through the engine is the result.

Once again both engines can be great. Nothing wrong with ether of them in my opinion. Depends on what someone expects?

I am fine running ether of them. However the law here says I cannot run a 100 cc engine. I like my power! Use it when I want two or just cruise. Working that throttle on my handle bars.



Ketchup meh. I will raise that to Salsa baby!

Goat Herder said:

There are better engines out there than a cheep thrill Happy Time. IME Yes even a two Stroke.
The thing I find is how many folks are experts on two stroke engines because they had experiance with a AKA Happy Time motor.

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I agree completely.
And it's not just the engine brand but how it's installed.

I have never bought a Happy Time or any E-bay BoyGoFast 2-strokes kits, I have however bought and installed 70 or so SKyhawk kits which are made in the Yuan Dong factory, brokered by China Gas, and sold in the US via gasbike.net and after all of the repairs I've done on cheap kit builds I'll never buy one.

No four stroke will cruise about slowly 10mph or 50 mph as well as what I have, or out launch me off the line as my little 49cc Italian Morini.

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Agreed other than a 49cc cent clutch direct drive can indeed putt-putt you along at 10MPH. It's hard on the clutch but it will.
As for speed and uphill torque that's what gears are for ;-}

Ketchup meh. I will raise that to Salsa baby!

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We do a lot of salsa here, there is usually 15 different varieties in our frig at any given time not counting my wife's homemade stuff.

Just for a perspective about the only thing here that gets ketchup is fried things like onion rings and french fries, A1 usually takes the place of it for most things like burgers and streaks.

As for mayonnaise I won't touch the stuff.
I use Miracle Whip for my tuna salad, cold turkey sandwiches, etc.

For engine chose I find it's best to ask yourself what you want to use the MB for like:
How far you ride at a time, your budget, your stature and mechanical skill to be far better indicators of what would suite you best and why my web sites Contact form asks those very questions.

KCvale said:

I agree completely.
And it's not just the engine brand but how it's installed.

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Ditto that means the world!!

KCvale said:

I have never bought a Happy Time or any E-bay BoyGoFast 2-strokes kits, I have however bought and installed 70 or so SKyhawk kits which are made in the Yuan Dong factory, brokered by China Gas, and sold in the US via gasbike.net and after all of the repairs I've done on cheap kit builds I'll never buy one.

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I have seen every one of those motors regardless of origin fall apart at one time. Mebbe there has been some improvement? They are cheep enough like Doritos just get another one . If sombody just putts one around and saves some for tommorrow that can be way differant. Cannot do just that my self. I likes a 12,000 rpm engine when I want to go there. The HT style can have a coronary after 6000 rpm lol. Ask me how I know?

KCvale said:

Agreed other than a 49cc cent clutch direct drive can indeed putt-putt you along at 10MPH. It's hard on the clutch but it will.

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I have clutches ''c'' ones older than any Happy time I have ever come across forum included. Still have yet to wear one out seriously... IME and I weigh in at 260 pounds that does not include my cargo or the bike. I have a motor with well over 14,000 miles on it and there is still cross hatch in the bore!! Thinking mebbe another 14k is very easely acheivable too. '' 12 horse power give or take for my altitude 49cc Morini''

I can see how a HT expert could be overwelmed with this claim for sure. These jewels have been reported to go 50,000 miles!



Sometimes I have a 40 pound bag of dog food draped onto my handle bars just sitting there going 40 mph including ''uphill'' Gonna make a video of it one of these days just had not cared . lol

I do understand there is confusion on these clutches too however. I had to make mine work. A lot of them come that way. ''fine tuning'' Once understood it has been absolute pure heavon for me.

KCvale said:

As for speed and uphill torque that's what gears are for ;-}

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Will go against your gears with my currant set up.. As my experience has always been they robbed power to some degree. Also when you take any motor and go 5 miles an hour for too long at such a load it is not right, as over heating at that kind of incline is gonna occur.. Especially a gut less engine.

The smaller chains on a jshaft just wear out too fast in my experance as well. Was changing them out constantly. The motor I speak of won race competitions. Single speed baby. Engineers made them for it. Folks at the race track demanded it that way. It simply works simply.

I had a few j shaft set ups and enjoyed them. However found in the long run there not really my style. Might do another one day? Dunno? That NV hub... well no way! I ran that hub at a 16 mile incline and the hub itself was scolding hot I put some 3000 thousand miles on one to say never again!

What I have now flat out runs circles around ALL OF IT big time!! Would not change a single thing. My single chain will go for up to 3000 miles until I change it somtimes.


All joking aside 4 or 2 they all do the job. Getting there

I do so enjoy our banter Goat, I really do bud ;-}

Though most of my builds are for commuters with a moderate budget I have two shifters in the works that may make you green with envy as I think both will run circles around your best direct drive ride in comfort, power, speed and overall coolness ;-}

I am just waiting for the EM3ev 50V 20Ah triangle battery for this 1850W 9-speed soft tail shifter.



And I just bought one of these 86cc 6HP 4-stroke kick start 4-speed engines today.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqIOKnME1UmQ3YK5BNbudK0kmw~~_1.JPG?set_id=8800005007



I haven't decided what bike to drop it in yet but after 11 AM tomorrow when I sign the papers I'll have a whole years wages in cash to decide with.

No you won't be seeing me at any races...
I already done did my things like that over the years and just trying to keep whats left of my body happy so I just build 'em, not race 'em ;-}

Your 1850W 9-speed soft tail shifter. My top speed can be up to 60 mph. Never gonna happen with those watts. No matter how well you grind those gears. Off the line could be cute . I will be gone lol. ''single speed''

You will not have to go to the races because I study what they have. When they match them up to a 12hp and up motor I shall take note.

That other motor is pretty kewl. Kinda large tho. How do you intend to j shaft that? lol.

Goat Herder said:

That other motor is pretty kewl. Kinda large tho. How do you intend to j shaft that? lol.

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That's the beauty, I don't need to JS it, it has 4 semi-auto shift gears in the engine (4 down on a lever) and why I am intrigued as I am an old school dirt bike rider (hence most of my body aliments) and I can see a smallish self contained power plant like this being a less expensive and better alternative to most other 4-stroke shifter options.

There are a lot of bike frames that motor will not fit in . That thing is huge compared to my power plant. I got about 12 horsies tho *grins*. What frame are you using?

I will never ride a hard tail again. I have a pretty good collection of soft tail stuff just beging for a 5000 watt power plant. Soft tail spoiled me big time!This looks to be where I am heading . No gears on them tho. The hub motor I want has way more than adequate power. About the only thing I will put againt my Morini.

I like the M bike for its simplicity. However

Think about the simplicity no jshaft to try to fall apart. Not even a single noisy chain from that kinda power plant.

Won't need them..

TBH this thread poses an impossibility, "2 stroke vs 4 stroke" seems a straightforward enough question that's been asked so many times... but it really isn't even a little bit as simple as that as there's so many different types, sizes & qualities to choose from, our differing applications & personal preferences only compounds the confusion. Add in the aforementioned electrics and even hybrid combinations of any/all the above and "which is best" over any other particular type starts to become a question only of what you would choose to play with - rather then the other way around.

Even aside from engine type there's the uses, the personal preferences that may make something "better" for you, but not another - there's nearly an infinite diversity in applications as well from the casual hobbyist, daily rider & commuter, racer, fabricator, vendor & more, even any combinations of the above.

Is maximum horsepower best? What about maximum torque? Gears or no? What if you're not interested in power sports & would rather just ride? What of a bit of both worlds? What of cost effectiveness, is money an issue? If it is, what's best - to buy a quality motor from the get go, or a cheap one & build one up yourself with aftermarket parts? What about buying a quality motor and modifying it to suit? Which brings us back around to personal preference & application again, you gonna build it for speed or reliability, even try for both? What of those parts you need, does the motor type lend itself to such modification in availability of parts & price? Then again, what if you don't like to tinker at all, not interested in building & just wanna ride?

Folks using these things run the full gamut from those seeking just a bit of pedal assistance for those pesky hills to those building motorcycles with vestigial pedals at most, if any at all. Even if you've managed to pick something that seems best for you - even that's only an educated guess based on what you think you'd prefer as it's very unlikely you've tried them all. There's more then a couple few folks that have sworn by something, resolutely claiming it was the numero uno bestist ever... to later try something new and find there's more then they thought to the question, that there isn't any one "best", not even for you.

Personally? My collection includes electrics, two strokes, four strokes, single speeds, internal gearboxes, jackshafts, chain drives & friction in comfy cruisers & racers both...

Which do I like best? *shrug* No idea as depends on the day, my mood & what I feel like playing with at the moment. As a tinker I just like to build stuff so that doesn't help the question, as a daily commuter, weekend cruiser, as one who does occasionally try to race a local 'ped or two... well, it's about which tool for the job sure - but what's the job lol?

Ti would rather have a sweet 212 souped up anyday over a china girl

Actualy I would rather a stock degoverned gx 160... I would choose a stock gx160 over even the arrow race motor or one of freds best builds any day !

I know that no matter how mutxh work and timeu put in a china girl iys stil just a pile of crap .... The suped up arrow race ... Well that is just a more ppwerfull piece of crap lol,thats going to last even last a short time where as a degoverned gx160 will put out the same hp but do it with more torque and a lot more reliability

That being said I still run china girls when I can get them at a xheap proce and they are worth the trouble

And no man a well done up gx or preddy looks mutch niver in a frame verticaly mounted than a china girl

rogergendron1 said:

Ti would rather have a sweet 212 souped up anyday over a china girl

Actualy I would rather a stock degoverned gx 160... I would choose a stock gx160 over even the arrow race motor or one of freds best builds any day !

I know that no matter how mutxh work and timeu put in a china girl iys stil just a pile of crap .... The suped up arrow race ... Well that is just a more ppwerfull piece of crap lol,thats going to last even last a short time where as a degoverned gx160 will put out the same hp but do it with more torque and a lot more reliability

That being said I still run china girls when I can get them at a xheap proce and they are worth the trouble

And no man a well done up gx or preddy looks mutch niver in a frame verticaly mounted than a china girl

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...and yet this is still just the tip of the iceberg - comparing two of the cheapest engines available doesn't exactly put either engine class in the best light, even a branded Honda gx160 is still just a repurposed utility motor which, if power to weight are a concern for the racing application mentioned, still may not be the "best" - even for maximum HP & torque.

Both the HFs and the HTs are popular for primarily one reason - they're inexpensive to purchase... but that's also where it gets tricky. Which is better? Buy a $100 motor then throw another $200 at it in parts & upgrades just to make it do what you want - or just to buy a higher quality motor for $300... or even a $300 motor with another $300 in parts & upgrades?

As for "looks" well, there's no right or wrong to something so personal... but for the time & effort of stripping a utility motor to try and make it look like somethin' else as well as all the costs of effort of mount & redrive, I'd consider something else entirely, like a Villers or Maytag which defo have looks & style, if not a lot else lol

Goat Herder said:

There are a lot of bike frames that motor will not fit in . That thing is huge compared to my power plant. I got about 12 horsies tho *grins*. What frame are you using?

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Probably this 29" Macargi Fatal Love, it took a 79cc Pred with room to spare.



But with a front shock fork with either a V brake or a disc, and a C brake to go with the coaster brake for the back.

The trick will how to shift the thing.

Ilegal cc size for me over here. Would have to register it as a motorcycle

rogergendron1 said:

I know that no matter how mutxh work and timeu put in a china girl iys stil just a pile of crap ....

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LOL, sounds like me. Them's fightin words around here.

But still imo a china girl is the best choice for an ice motor bicycle.

I think it's a big mistake to try to make a bicycle into a motorcycle, which is what a lot of people try to do.