Help! Need Expert!

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GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
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Congratulations on your adjustments! You are now on your way to understanding how these little engines work. They are simple, but they do have a learning curve.
The clutches are known for having a hard pull when new. They will loosen up a bit with use. Have you lubricated the cable? Use any commercially sold cable lubricant from a local bicycle shop, WalMart, ect. White Lightning Epic Ride is very good.
White Lightning
Although not as good, you can also use a light oil such as 3in1 oil, Tri Flow, ect.
If you are really in a pinch, automotive oil is better that nothing at all. Do not use WD40.
Are there any kinks or sharp bends in how the cable is routed along the bike? That will make for a hard pull as well.
 
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KCvale

KCvale

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Feb 28, 2010
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Blackrain2012 said:
My clutch is now engaging and disengaging but the lever is so stiff that i have to reach down and change it myself!
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They loosen up.
I know it feels like it takes two men and a boy to pull the lever to start, but it really does loosen up some with use.

And you guys can just call me KC, I added the vale because I can't use a 2 letter name here ;-}

Now that you actually have your clutch cable adjusted look at how it is routed.
Tight bends will restrict the cables movement inside the sleeve.

Also, where do you mount the clutch lever on your handlebars?
The brake lever too for that matter, any hand operated lever on a shaft.
(side note, padded grips make a big difference!)

The human hand is an amazing thing.
It has force you never never knew about in one position, and virtually none in another, and besides the hands design like everything else, it is a matter of leverage.

The clutch and dual pull brake levers on my builds point almost directly down, not straight out forward. Granted I have big hands, but the concept is the same.

For both hands, the 'magic spot' is that that middle joint finger segment spot on your hands.
Just look at your hand curled slightly...

Your have joints at the palm, a joints for the 'magic middle', and a joints for the finger tip parts.

Loosen your lever enough to move, sit comfortably on your bike, then move the lever until it hits the 'magic spot' on your fingers when you grasp the lever.

I know it sounds simple, but aren't those the best kind of solutions?
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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Awesome to see you got it going! Make sure you adjusted the flower nut right ? Or the clutch will slip.
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Be sure the master link clip goes with the flow so to speak. If anything can catch it it will come off . Set it the other way and if anything rubs on it it will stay on. Did the master break?
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Man so close and so far I feel ya man. If your motor out put gear is one of the skinny ones the 410 will work. ENGINE_KIT_PARTS_PAGE_2

SBP has master links and they mail them fast too. LINK 415 Master Link

If you have any drift punches and the chain you got is still long enough. Support the chain on something in a thought out way. Knock a pin back Knock it back together then take a ball peen hammer to mushroom the pin to where it will not come out. This is a difficult way to do it and a lot easier with a chain breaker.

Sorry your having bad luck guy. It will be running good soon enough!
__________________
 
kipharley

kipharley

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Jul 9, 2009
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You sound like you have the clutch thing ironed out.I think putting more than one rag-joint spacer behind the sprocket will move your chain to much and it might hit your chain stays plus it won't line up with the front sprocket.Doe's your sprocket have an offset or is it straight? if it has an offset then maybe it should be turned around so that it moves the chain away from the tire.If so your chain idler will have to be adjusted also.Another thing you can try is to"cheat" the wheel to the right some this might give you the clearance you need.I didn't read all the posts so maybe I missed someone else suggesting That on your clutch end adjustment the screw that holds your cable in the brass holder.I take the screw out and with a small file I round the end if the screw.This helps keep the cable from getting chewed up and you can get a better "bite" on the cable.Also before I install the clutch assy I take the cable out of the housing and put a good glob of anti-seize lubricant on a small peice of a terry cloth towel and work the lubricant into the full length of the cable then I squirt pb-blaster or wd-40 into the housing before I slide the cable back in.This will help keep moisture out and keep your cable from rusting inside the housing.
I don't claim to be an expert but it's worked for me! Good luck! Kip.
 
Kevlarr

Kevlarr

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Jul 22, 2009
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Just a word on hard to pull clutches, I ditched the spring that goes between the arm and the cable stop and it works sooooo much nicer now.
 
GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
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The K710 appears to be a heavier duty chain. The K410H has received more reviews of excellence than the K710, so I cannot really comment on the K710.
I run a Tsubaki 415 standard, which it alot heavier but there is no way a little Chinese 2-stroke can break it. It is also a 1/2 x 3/16 pitch which it too big for the factory rear sprocket.
 
kipharley

kipharley

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Jul 9, 2009
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GearNut said:
The K710 appears to be a heavier duty chain. The K410H has received more reviews of excellence than the K710, so I cannot really comment on the K710.
I run a Tsubaki 415 standard, which it alot heavier but there is no way a little Chinese 2-stroke can break it. It is also a 1/2 x 3/16 pitch which it too big for the factory rear sprocket.
Click to expand...
How much do you pay for the K410H?
 
KCvale

KCvale

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Feb 28, 2010
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kipharley said:
You sound like you have the clutch thing ironed out.
... I work the lubricant into the full length of the cable then I squirt pb-blaster or wd-40 into the housing before I slide the cable back in.This will help keep moisture out and keep your cable from rusting inside the housing.
Click to expand...
I see the logic of using WD-40 to keep moisture out, but seems to me it might be flawed logic...

WD-40 is a solvent. It will render your lubricant useless in the cable.
A well oiled cable will prevent any rust on its own.

I haven't had a chance to try it on a bike yet, but I would think a clean wire and cable with graphite powder on it would be best, especially in a Teflon cable housing.

All I know for sure is graphite powder made my little boyscout 8" and full size soap box derby coaster vehicles wheels spin free enough to win both race they were in ;-}
 
kipharley

kipharley

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KCvale said:
I see the logic of using WD-40 to keep moisture out, but seems to me it might be flawed logic...

WD-40 is a solvent. It will render your lubricant useless in the cable.
A well oiled cable will prevent any rust on its own.

I haven't had a chance to try it on a bike yet, but I would think a clean wire and cable with graphite powder on it would be best, especially in a Teflon cable housing.

All I know for sure is graphite powder made my little boyscout 8" and full size soap box derby coaster vehicles wheels spin free enough to win both race they were in ;-}
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Hi,KC.WD-40 isn't a solvent persay.it's a penetrating oil.
The reason it appears to be a solvent when used on thicker oil and grease is that it's diluting it.That is why I use penetrating oil with the anti-seize lubricant.
The anti-seize has graphite in it.
So when I slide the cable with anti-seize worked into it the penetrating oil dilutes the anti-seize and penetrates the cable.
Graphite powder worked great on my soap-box car also."I was disqualified cause they found a motor under the hood".
Graphite also won't displace water and doesn't keep cables from rusting very well!
Also it doesn't last very long.Kip.
 
Bikeguy Joe

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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wd-40 will wash out any lubricant and dry out in a matter of days. If you do choose to use it, follow it up with a real lubricant like oil.
 
kipharley

kipharley

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Jul 9, 2009
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Sanford,Maine
Bikeguy Joe said:
wd-40 will wash out any lubricant and dry out in a matter of days. If you do choose to use it, follow it up with a real lubricant like oil.
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Hi,Joe.WD-40 is a "penetrating" oil.That is what it was made for!
It penetrates into surfaces and displaces water.preventing rust!
That is what I use it for....see all those periods!
If you think it drys out in a matter of days,spray some on a primered tank and let it "dry out" for a couple of days,then try painting that tank."let me know how it works out!"
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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The ol WD stands for water displacement fluid it was invented by the Navy at one time I believe. It has no lubrication to it that is substantial. Penetrating fluid yes there are way better penetrating fluids out there.

The best penetrating fluid I ever used was made by G.M. and I have had the best luck ever with stubborn fasteners.

Part # 1052627 Heat Valve Lubricant (penetrating lube that has gotten rave reviews from those that use it)

Messing up a paint job does not constitute said penetration fluids as a heavy duty lubricant .
 
kipharley

kipharley

New Member
Jul 9, 2009
646
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Sanford,Maine
Goat Herder said:
The ol WD stands for water displacement fluid it was invented by the Navy at one time I believe. It has no lubrication to it that is substantial. Penetrating fluid yes there are way better penetrating fluids out there.

The best penetrating fluid I ever used was made by G.M. and I have had the best luck ever with stubborn fasteners.

Part # 1052627 Heat Valve Lubricant (penetrating lube that has gotten rave reviews from those that use it)

Messing up a paint job does not constitute said penetration fluids as a heavy duty lubricant .
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Hi,Goat Herder.Who ever said that penetration fluids were heavy duty lubricants??
Goose grease is a heavy duty lubricant but I wouldn't use it on my clutch cable!
You guy's make WD-40 sound like it should be banned.It is what it is and I'm sure there are tons of other products out there that are better,but it does what I want it to do.
The point I was tring to make about spraying it on the tank is that it doesn't dry up it penetrates and displaces water.
 
GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
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San Diego, Kaliforgnia
kipharley said:
How much do you pay for the K410H?
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They vary from $8 to $15 depending on the bicycle shop or internet site.
KMC 410H 1/8" Silver 410HNPX98L Find KMC Bicycle Chains at AirBomb.com
KMC SINGLE SPEED CHAINS at JensonUSA.com

As I stated previously, I do not use one of these highly regarded chains.
I use a Tsubaki 415 standard, which is a motorcycle chain. It is alot heavier than a bicycle chain, but there is no way a Chinese 2+ hp engine could ever break it. It will most likely outlast 2 or 3 sets of sprockets too.
 
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