Minimal Electric Conversion

GoldenMotor.com
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
I guess I don't want a full blown electric bike but a part time electric bike.

On a day to day basis I don't want to use an electric motor at all, I want the bike to behave as it normally does. When I would want to use electric power I would plan on still peddling. I am good shape endurance wise but a little help would not hurt.

I plan on doing trips of longer than 100 miles in a single setting once in awhile. On these trips I would want to provide all the power when going through towns and such but when on the open road I just want a little bit of help.

I could imagine using it when the road is open and going up hills or against the wind and would turn it off during downhills. On level ground and no head wind I really don't know if I would use it or not.

Here are my concerns. Would usage like this actually be counter productive? The additional weight and drag I wonder if it would actually increase the effort on a long trip rather than save effort. Also on daily trips would it decrease my human powered bike performance by much?

I am picturing a fairly weak system where I would be providing between 100-60% of the power so it would be providing 0-40% depending on the conditions.

I wonder if it will make me worse off rather than better off than pure human power.
 
zabac70

zabac70

New Member
Mar 17, 2010
204
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0
54
Belgrade , Serbia
Added weight will , for sure , reduce your "human powered" range. With expensive batteries (Lithium based) and hub motor and controller , you are looking at least 30 pounds + of added weight.
For your specifications (long trips), regenerative braking might help(downhills) , but it is hard to advice something useful , without precise elements for calculations. There are solutions for you , but only very expensive comes to mind at the moment.
 
deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
If I did not have a bad heart that limits my oxygen intake ability, I wouldn't use a motor of any kind around town. If I were allowed to drive a car, (seizures from a brain tumor) I wouldn't use a bike much at all. To be honest the only bikes I have that are of any use in my situation are the ones that do at least 75% of the heavy lifting. I enjoy the riding along at low speeds on the bike path these days, but when it comes to the big hills on the road getting around town, I need the motor to pull my fat butt up the hills. If not I wind up gasping for air and choking, not to mention that awful red color in my face is just not very becoming.

All that said, there were some interesting older drives that were a big problem because of the battery weight. If you have the money to throw at the problem there was a very light friction drive unit that would just give you about 25% to maybe 40% help. Unlike the hub motor you could actually lift it off the wheel when not in use. The problem at the time was the sla battery needed to power it. If you used a lithium battery instead, you would significantly reduce the amount of weight. It might be equivalent to hauling about a small bag of groceries weight wise. The big advantage would be the ability to lift the drive off the wheel. With the drive locked up, you would have no extra drag at all. At least that is my thinking. We used to do that kind of thing with weed whacker engines, it's called a gravity clutch with those.
 
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M

motorbiker

New Member
Mar 22, 2008
569
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0
Tampa Bay Florida
Some hub motors do not freewheel and this makes the bike harder to pedal when not using electric power.

The Heinzmann and some Golden motor hub motors will freewheel making them easier to pedal when not using electric power.

Heinzmann USA - How It Works

hub motor, brushless motor, BLDC motor, bike conversion kit, brushless controller,electric bike,wheelchair controller,electric wheelchair,dual drive ebike, electric motorcycle,EV battery,brushless hub motor ,golf trolley,brushless joystick controller

The Currie axle mount will also freewheel.

Amazon.com: Currie Electro Drive Electric Bike Conversion Kit w/ 24 Volt Plug & Play Battery Pack: Sports & Outdoors
 
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M

motorbiker

New Member
Mar 22, 2008
569
0
0
Tampa Bay Florida
I have lots of bikes. With and without motors.

When I started riding my Currie ezip trailz I would use the motor a lot.

http://www.amazon.com/Currie-EZip-Trailz-Mens-Electric/dp/B001PH6JFW

It has sla batteries and is a somewhat heavy bicycle.

The motor on the ezip freewheels.

The more I rode it the longer trips I would take and I would pedal more.

Then I started doing 10 mile rides on the thing not using the motor power at all.

Now when I get on my light weight bikes with no motors I fly !

Lately I have been riding a Schwinn trike with no motor.

I see bikes that weigh more in a whole different way now.

Hills too.

It is kinda nice to know I can hit the switch and not pedal if I want on the ezip.

Set up right I think most people could do the 100 miles faster with an electric setup. usflg
 
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J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
My goal is for the unit to be as light as possible allow free wheeling. I think at the most the power I would want would be maybe move the bike 4mph on its own.

I don't want the assist from day to day. Just on the once a month longer rides. I have never used a motorized bike so I don't know what to expect. I see that many of the bikes can do 20mph on their own. Maybe something can be crafted smaller, lighter and freewheeling.

Maybe there is not a good use 5% of the time solution.

I do long outdoor activity still but am starting a slow decline. Last summer I did a 500+ mile walk and have done many 100+ mile solo bike trips in one setting. The last few months I feel like I am going into decline. I less than a year away from 50 years old. It is only the long accents into the wind that really tear me up.
 
J

jdcburg

New Member
Jul 9, 2009
150
0
0
massachusetts
Hi JSB. I think what you are looking for may be a friction drive system designed by a guy named Kepler. His criteria are -
=> 2 Kg in weight including battery
=> No drag at all on the bike when throttled off
=> Very quick release and re fit (30 second target)
=> 6S LiPo configuration to utilize cheap low Voltage speed controllers
=> 1000 Watt max output
=> 40 kph top speed
=> Very compact configuration
He describes it here: Endless-sphere.com • View topic - An Advanced Friction Drive System Essentially what he proposed (and built) is a lightweight rear-wheel friction drive that uses an RC motor and lightweight RC batteries. The motor case spins and is the drive roller. The design is such that when the motor spins, it pushes itself into position on the tire and holds itself there. When the throttle is released, a spring lifts the motor a mm or 2 off the tire so there is no motor drag. I believe he reached his target weight of under 5 lbs with batteries. There are now about 30 pages of replies so you'll have to sift through a lot but it might be worth it - jd
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
Maybe I should ask the question this way.

What is the smallest lightest set up that you guys know of that has the least interference with no motor running.

It is the long portions on a gradual incline against the wind that are starting to get to me on long trips.
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
jdcburg said:
Hi JSB. I think what you are looking for may be a friction drive system designed by a guy named Kepler. His criteria are -
=> 2 Kg in weight including battery
=> No drag at all on the bike when throttled off
=> Very quick release and re fit (30 second target)
=> 6S LiPo configuration to utilize cheap low Voltage speed controllers
=> 1000 Watt max output
=> 40 kph top speed
=> Very compact configuration
He describes it here: Endless-sphere.com • View topic - An Advanced Friction Drive System Essentially what he proposed (and built) is a lightweight rear-wheel friction drive that uses an RC motor and lightweight RC batteries. The motor case spins and is the drive roller. The design is such that when the motor spins, it pushes itself into position on the tire and holds itself there. When the throttle is released, a spring lifts the motor a mm or 2 off the tire so there is no motor drag. I believe he reached his target weight of under 5 lbs with batteries. There are now about 30 pages of replies so you'll have to sift through a lot but it might be worth it - jd
Click to expand...
I posted and didn't see yours.

That sounds like the best option I have heard of so far.

I will go take a look.
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
Not knowing anything about friction drive systems I will ask this question.

While it is running I assume I can help it by peddling away?

I don't know if the candidate bike makes much difference. A perfect condition Trek Elance light weight 12 speed road bike from 1987.
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
I see he is getting much more power than I would want or need but maybe that does not matter since I could control the power.

The quick release and refit, does that mean it takes that long to set it up to run when the long grade comes up or does that mean to take it on or off the bike?

I am guessing low power setups are not what people are shopping for. I will send him a message.
 
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J

jdcburg

New Member
Jul 9, 2009
150
0
0
massachusetts
I think he's talking about taking it on and off the bike. If your normal ride doesn't have any hills you could leave it home but if you're going for a long hilly ride, you can put it on the bike quick. I think the idea is to pedal most or all of the time. If you think you need a little power, you hit the throttle and the motor drops down. when it engages, it pulls itself into tight contact with the tire. The harder the motor pulls, the more it pulls itself into the tire. I would think you could pedal along. When you don't need the motor anymore, just back off the throttle and the spring lifts it off the wheel and there's no drag. Those little motors are made to power model helicopters and such so they are light but powerful. So are the lipo batteries. Sounds like the ideal setup for you. There are other possibilities using lightweight motors and lipo batteries. Look on the endless-sphere non-hub motor forum for other ideas - jd
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
Thanks for showing me this. It looks like a very close match to what I am looking for. If it goes on and off that easy it could be slapped on just before a long distance weekend ride and not be there at all during the week.

I wonder if anyone else has done anything similar.
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
That looks like more more weight and possibly power than I am looking for.

How much does that thing weigh. I like the other one by the guy in Australia that can be easily removed from the bike. That looks like it would be a bit harder to remove.

If it makes the peddling much harder when not being used it might be counter productive.
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
On looking at it again the motor does not look all that heavy. I am liking the idea of a fully removable set up. I don't think I need a 30 mile battery pack for 100 mile rides as I am not needing the boost that often.
 
NEAT TIMES

NEAT TIMES

New Member
May 28, 2008
1,964
1
0
PENSACOLA, FL
The Bike I Have Is No Longer Available. It Is A Much Older Production.

Have Not Seen The Aussie Bike You Are Referring To. I Don`t Think Anything Is Going To Be Much Lighter Than The Kit Or The Trailz Complete Bike. The Kit Wheel Comes With The 7 Speed Cassette On The Right Side And The Freewheel Sprocket On The Left. I Have No Involvement With Any Seller.

Everything I Have Seen Is Much Higher Priced.

But It Does Not Matter To Me.

Happy Cruising.
Just Giving You Options/idea`s.
 
J

jonsidneyb

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
13
0
0
oklahoma
NEAT TIMES said:
The Bike I Have Is No Longer Available. It Is A Much Older Production.

Have Not Seen The Aussie Bike You Are Referring To. I Don`t Think Anything Is Going To Be Much Lighter Than The Kit Or The Trailz Complete Bike. The Kit Wheel Comes With The 7 Speed Cassette On The Right Side And The Freewheel Sprocket On The Left. I Have No Involvement With Any Seller.

Everything I Have Seen Is Much Higher Priced.

But It Does Not Matter To Me.

Happy Cruising.
Just Giving You Options/idea`s.
Click to expand...
Nowdays plain mid class human powered road bikes are typically above 1k in price with the really good ones starting at 4k and up from there.
 
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