Moped warning from the past

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Trey

$50 Cruiser
Jan 17, 2013
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Where cattle outnumber people 3 to 1.
From the book; Stories behind everyday things, from Readers Digest, 1980.

"If Evil Knievel represents one perception of the motorcyclist, a new and very different image has also emerged. In large measure, this stemmed from the energy crisis, which led people from all walks of life-brokers, teachers, housewives- to take to the motorcycle saddle as a means of reducing gasoline bills. Some purchased traditional, high-powered cycles, but the trend appeared to be toward a little two-wheeled, motorized vehicle all but unknown in the United States until the mid-1970's-the moped. About the size of a bicycle, the vehicle has a small motor (about half as powerful as that of a lawnmower) and pedals: hence the name moped.
While the moped's use is curtailed by bad weather because of it's relatively poor traction, perhaps most limiting of all is the fact that it is infinitely more dangerous than it looks. About 17 percent of all vehicular-related deaths in France involve mopeds, and a California policeman has remarked that moped drivers are all but guaranteed a hospital stay should they become involved in even a minor collision. As one Florida expert puts it, the moped 'will go fast enough to get you in trouble, but not fast enough to get you out'."


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bluegoatwoods

Active Member
Jul 29, 2012
1,581
6
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Central Illinois
You know......it's not wrong.

I don't think it's a good idea, as a matter of fact, for us (motor assisted bicycles) to try to run with the traffic. I mostly ride side streets and road shoulders simply in order to stay out of traffic. Almost exactly the same way, and the same paths, as I ride my pedal bike.

One big disadvantage to mopeds/scooters is that they can not legally ride in some of the places that I ride. So they are forced into traffic in those places. Raising, measurably, their chances of maiming or death.
 

scotto-

Custom 4-Stroke Bike Builder
Jun 3, 2010
6,505
24
38
Ridin' inSane Diego, CA.
Mopeds are very dangerous. Gopeds are very dangerous. Bicycles and unicycles are very dangerous. Cars and trucks........ultra dangerous. Trains.......yup, dangerous. Submarines and ships and boats......dangerous. Airplanes and jets are also dangerous. Rockets and space shuttles......umm yeah, dangerous.

The air we breath, cancer, AIDS, drugs, alcohol, mercury, lead, acid, gasoline, NOS, tripping and falling down........all of these are dangerous too.

Don't forget to inform Reader's Digest of all these fatal subtleties in life.

dance1
 

HackD

Member
Oct 25, 2014
61
0
6
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
From the book; Stories behind everyday things, from Readers Digest, 1980.

"If Evil Knievel represents one perception of the motorcyclist, a new and very different image has also emerged. In large measure, this stemmed from the energy crisis, which led people from all walks of life-brokers, teachers, housewives- to take to the motorcycle saddle as a means of reducing gasoline bills. Some purchased traditional, high-powered cycles, but the trend appeared to be toward a little two-wheeled, motorized vehicle all but unknown in the United States until the mid-1970's-the moped. About the size of a bicycle, the vehicle has a small motor (about half as powerful as that of a lawnmower) and pedals: hence the name moped.
While the moped's use is curtailed by bad weather because of it's relatively poor traction, perhaps most limiting of all is the fact that it is infinitely more dangerous than it looks. About 17 percent of all vehicular-related deaths in France involve mopeds, and a California policeman has remarked that moped drivers are all but guaranteed a hospital stay should they become involved in even a minor collision. As one Florida expert puts it, the moped 'will go fast enough to get you in trouble, but not fast enough to get you out'."

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It was the introduction of government regulation and application of vehicle standards for mopeds coming into Canada in the mid to late 1970's, combined with the introduction of compulsory vehicle insurance requirements, and the requirements for basic rider licencing requirements that killed off the moped .. the root cause being that they were involved in a very high number of MVA's disproportionate to their numbers on the road.

The call for Freedom, to ride what you want to ride, and the way that you want to ride it, is justifiably curtailed in a country with socialized healthcare, where everyone else ends up paying through their taxes, for your dumb-ass moves.. they were a big problem for escalating healthcare costs (along with regular motorcycles, etc) back then.

Pre-legislation, it was a comparative Wild West for most 'recreational vehicle classes'. Post-legislation, the Moped market virtually disappeared, while the regular motorcycle market shrank down/collapsed to a shadow of it's former self by the end of the 70's, before gaining strength again through renewed popularity with RUB's, Baby boomers and affluent youth in the very early 1990's.

I've seen Jawa's of that era, as well as many of the cheaper Italian/east european moped variants... generally, they weren't particularly well built for safety and durability in mind, they were cheaply built for export in exchange for hard currency, first and foremost.

Increasing urban traffic density in the 1970's, combined with generally larger, and faster standardized roadway speed limits, also contributed to the moped's demise. The moped's brakes, suspension, and power output, is generally a poor match to that North American environment, vs the European environment for which they were better suited for.

This same trend also killed off other low-speed motor vehicles in the motorcycle market. Honda's bread and butter, the Honda Cub and variants, was a huge hit throughout the 1960's. By the late 1970's, it's Canadian market fortunes had long waned. By the early 1980's, it was a discontinued model in the North American market entirely - although it continued in all it's variants to be a market success elsewhere in much of the world, right up to the late 2000's.

My first 'motorcycle' was a 1966 Honda C-65 Cub. 63cc's of step-thru independence from the bicycle at age 16. This was the mid-1980's. I rode it *1* year, and my father told me to buy a frigging real motorcycle that could maintain an average road-speed, with the traffic of the day. He saw it as being in very real danger of being accidented because of aggressive or careless drivers doing something, that the step-thru couldn't counter-act through acceleration, braking, or in it's general lack of stability or traction vs a pothole or skinny-tires. I moved up the next year to a 200cc that could much better keep up with urban traffic - and he was much happier, and so was i. I did keep that C-65 for a number of years after, purely for intrinsic value - it had first been my Mother's, and then my Grandfather's, from the start of the 1970's.

He was right.

Today, I have a cosmetically modded '82 Honda C70 Passport in the garage that is for intrinsic, non-road, non-plated pleasure use only. I would have to be near-suicidal to want to licence, insure and ride the damn thing on today's road-ways. The Honda Cub was a vehicle (with similar proportions to a classic moped) that was designed in the 1950's. in North America, the height of their market popularity peaked in the mid to late 1960's, and then almost entirely fell from favor by the mid-1970's - since then time, progress, and general road conditions have basically rendered obsolete this vehicle class, in the intervening years. I see the moped falling into the same class of obsoleted vehicles, in terms of safe and regular road usage.

I understand that some can ride these Mopeds and MAB's in regions where legislation is much more lax, and registration and licencing standards are next to non-existent, and all the power to you if you can.. but not for me, by choice.

The article is accurate - in that by 1980, they were indeed already a vehicle of a by-gone era.

In my own opinion, of course.
 
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Intrepid Wheelwoman

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
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Hauraki District, New Zealand
When I was living on an off shore island where traffic was almost non-existent I owned several Honda 50 step-thru bikes over the years including a really old one with the early pushrod engine and an iron cylinder head. Absolutely terrific to ride on the poor roads and unmade tracks on the island and completely stone reliable. Would I ride one today in modern heavy city traffic? - no I wouldn't.
On the other hand though these days I wouldn't go near our country's largest city (just 200kms away) for any reason without a revolver loaded with silver bullets, a supply of garlic, a blessed crucifix and a few sharpened wooden stakes packed away in my shoulder bag. Well perhaps I exaggerate, but most cities are no place to be either for elderly mopeds or sensible human beings.
Part of the regular traffic flow on the road outside my front gate in this little counrty town where I live are trucks carrying big loads of crushed cars on their way to the steel recycling mill. Everytime I see one go by I want to whoop and cheer :D :D :D
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
If I didn't live in a forest with a local low traffic 30mph paved road to enjoy I would be less enthused about motored bikes. I don't even much enjoy riding in our local small town which has two traffic lights... too many opportunities to get into an accident and hospital. And if I weren't building my own rides I doubt I'd ride a moped or light motorcycle at all. Much of the fun is in the building and in this forum of friends. When I go to town I take the truck. No death wish.
SB
 

bluegoatwoods

Active Member
Jul 29, 2012
1,581
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Central Illinois
Still....wouldn't it be a better world if it had all worked out differently? Imagine that the full-sized automobile had been discouraged. Not outlawed, just taxed and heavily regulated to the point that one had to be fairly well established before being able to afford one.

Us working class types would be riding bicycle, mopeds and such. With a market to look to, then folks like Honda and Yamaha would offer some machines. Heck, maybe Chevrolet would offer something as well.

We could have had a world that was more like Amsterdam. Where the cars actually cooperate with two-wheeled traffic. They look as though they don't even mind being cooperative.

On our way to work we'd run into some of our co-workers. We'd have a chance to chat as we rode along. We'd run into strangers. Some of them would be the opposite sex. And they wouldn't think we're dorks.

It would have been better that way.

I could get myself lynched for saying this, but I actually like WTI oil, for instance, at about $120/barrel. (Not being an economist, my calculation might be wrong. But there's got to be some optimum price) It's not high enough to destroy our economy. But it's just high enough to force us working class types to cut way back on automobile usage and use something a whole lot cheaper.

We'd all be better off for it.
 

HackD

Member
Oct 25, 2014
61
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6
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Again, Canadian specific, and Ontario focused.

Since all of the regulatory changes to vehicles that coincided with the mainstream moped demise, back in the late 1970's - all vehicles are heavily road-taxed through DMV registrations and driver licencing fees, gas taxes, and mandatory insurance is bound to cost a pretty penny, even if your record is clean.

Automotive maintenance is not cheap. A new car is not cheap. Even a decent used car, is not cheap. Without maintenance, a car depreciates heavily in value and reliability. Here, you are sometimes replacing that car every 7-10 years on the outside, from new.

While not discouraged, you certainly aren't buying and maintaining one on minimum wage, and housing yourself at the same time. For those making a lower middle class wage, it's doable - just.

Reliable, safe two-wheeled transport here is at best, a 7 out of 12 months thing due to weather.

We are different from European countries. Distances are much greater, even urban zones are much more spread out. What works there in terms of LSM's, doesn't translate as well here, generally. Not as many impatient road-bully Dodge Rams and Ford F250's to stuff your arse up in Amsterdam, either. Inter-urban commutes measured in hours per day, is common here.

If it is running on gas - it better be licenceable and insurable, period. Otherwise, it's Taxi, Transit Bus, sneaker power, bicycle or e-bike (gag!) for you.

Still....wouldn't it be a better world if it had all worked out differently? Imagine that the full-sized automobile had been discouraged. Not outlawed, just taxed and heavily regulated to the point that one had to be fairly well established before being able to afford one.

Us working class types would be riding bicycle, mopeds and such. With a market to look to, then folks like Honda and Yamaha would offer some machines. Heck, maybe Chevrolet would offer something as well.

We could have had a world that was more like Amsterdam. Where the cars actually cooperate with two-wheeled traffic. They look as though they don't even mind being cooperative.

On our way to work we'd run into some of our co-workers. We'd have a chance to chat as we rode along. We'd run into strangers. Some of them would be the opposite sex. And they wouldn't think we're dorks.

It would have been better that way.

I could get myself lynched for saying this, but I actually like WTI oil, for instance, at about $120/barrel. (Not being an economist, my calculation might be wrong. But there's got to be some optimum price) It's not high enough to destroy our economy. But it's just high enough to force us working class types to cut way back on automobile usage and use something a whole lot cheaper.

We'd all be better off for it.
 

Intrepid Wheelwoman

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
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Hauraki District, New Zealand
I can only speak from what happened here in New Zealand in my lifetime. For many years we had an awkward situation with the import of new vehicles which led to cars of 35+ years of age being a common sight on our roads and newer vehicles being quite uncommon. Our public transport system was good if a little antiquated and riding a bicycle to work or school was quite usual. When I started my first job I rode a bicycle to work for around a year until I could eventually afford to buy a small elderly Austin which could attain the dizzying top speed of 60 miles an hour with a following wind. Oh and I should mention too that owning a motorcycle for serious everyday transport wasn't that uncommon either. I came to motorcycle ownership quite late due to Mum being highly resistant to me owning one. I can still remember Mumr telling me the gory tale of a chap up the road from us who hit a lamp post on his motorcycle one night and ended up with a steel plate in his head.

Towns here tended towards being small and self contained with most places within a town being easily reached by an ordinary bicycle. Once the importation regulations changed and the importation of cheap Japanese cars happened here in New Zealand we started to see poorly planned infill suburbs with little real self supporting infrastructure being built between towns where car ownership was essential as public transport had failed to keep up with the urban sprawl.
Motorcycle and bicycle use fell away as cars were now easily in reach of most people, - especially the young working class. Old cars started fading from the roads and being scrapped instead of being kept going due to the lack of new alternatives. Government blundering saw our antiquated public transport networks basically remain so with the rail network especially suffering. All of which led to us here in New Zealand making the same dopey mistakes as most countries overseas had and becoming almost totally car dependent.

I do realise countries like Canada with a severe Winter climate and wider distances are a different situation to New Zealand, but by becoming dependant on cars we have reached a situation where life without car ownership is largely impossible. I'm fortunate enough to now live in one of those small old fashioned rural towns out in dairy farming country that does have a good self supporting infrastructure. My car is for sale and I can get everywhere I want to go by bicycle despite living with a chronic illness. Having had a professional, but not especially well paying job, with the mental health service in the big city for some years I know what commuting in near bumper to bumper traffic is like and I happen to think we're all nuts for supposing that this is a good and normal thing to do.

High oil prices are going to be a fact, - get used to it people, - the long wild party is drawing to a close. I very much agree with what bluegoatwoods has posted. We messed up and missed the chance to have a more sensible society so now we have to lump it. Change will happen and it's going to hurt as we're forced to change our habits and daily life style because we won't have any choice in the matter.
 

HackD

Member
Oct 25, 2014
61
0
6
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Agreed on all points, Intrepid Wheelwoman .. won't get a peep of argument out of me on what you've said. I see much of the infrastructure and population issues that you speak of, here.

Unfortunately, what could have been a different direction taken in the past (immediate Post-WW2 in these parts, the die was cast, then) is a path that would take a fundamental shift in the way that we live - with a lot of pain that is going to be experienced by everyone, in adjusting from the present, to the future realities.

I just guess that i can't live in the past, or with the what could have been's.. i'm a realist, i deal with the here and now's. I too would like to use my Step-Thru's, my CT's, even my MAB on the road-ways, but times have changed, and there are performance, legal and traffic limitations and realities that really become insurmountable barriers (to myself, anyway), in the here and now.

Pity, but it is what it is.
 

bluegoatwoods

Active Member
Jul 29, 2012
1,581
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Central Illinois
Still, there's room for adjustment even here in the USA. New York City, by all accounts, is seeing more and more bicycle use.

Picture, say, a rancher out in 'big sky' country. Yes. He can't very well give up the pickup truck and get along by bicycle. (though he might be able to manage more two-wheeling than he thinks) There's a good example of someone who can't make this adjustment very well.

Now I live on the edge of your typical small-medium sized city. I could live car free. There are a few reasons that I don't. I'm car-lite. But I could go car free. And so could most of the people around me. And if they did, then that would force better public transportation in this neighborhood. Among other improvements that would also be forced by fewer people driving cars.

Some of my co-workers live an hour, by car, from work. Yup, they can't bicycle. But in a society that has handled the transportation issue better than ours has people simply wouldn't live 80 miles from work. Correcting this distortion in our society can't be done overnight. But we should be pushing in that direction.

One of the 'penalties' I pay for my car-lite lifestyle is that I'm not free, at the drop of a hat, to run over to the city that's about an hour away to window shop at their Wal-Mart or party with friends over there. Folks might be surprised to see how little they miss freedom of that sort. It can be lived without very easily. The less hectic pace of life is a big relief, as a matter of fact.

These days I rarely travel more than about 12 miles from home. I don't need to. All that I need is within that distance. Which, by the way, takes a lot of force out of that argument that 'what works in Europe won't work in America' because of our more wide-open spaces.

Most of us don't live in those wide open spaces. Most of us live in places like mine. I rate my city as bike-neutral. There are cities that are more bike unfriendly. They'd be less so if there were more bikes. They'd literally be forced to make the adjustment.

I used to think that expensive fuel would force the adjustment one day. Now I'm not so sure that fuel must, must be expensive in the future.

But when we start getting traffic jams that last for days, like they're starting to get in China, plus very dirty air, then maybe things will start to change. But we ought to be ashamed of ourselves for being so short-sighted that we have to have stuff like that before we (maybe) start doing something about it.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
I appreciate the many thoughtful comments in this thread. Bluegoat, your last post was especially resonant. For many of us an e-bike, motored bicycle or motorcycle is not much of a solution to the problem of transit. We either live too far away from where we need to go, the roads and laws are not conducive to anything not capable of keeping up with vehicular traffic or normal weather conditions rule out two wheeled transport most of the time. Two wheels on ice or snow is not safe. And as for me traveling in the open at sub zero temperatures is not an option. For those of us in the northern tier of the U.S. or Canada, riding on two wheels is a part time hobby or sport or at best is seasonal (short seasonal).

It is why I am hopeful that the three wheeled Elio will make it to market. If it is successful then competition will follow and change the way many of us drive. A three wheeler is enclosed and could very well be suitable for a cold climate. Along with sensible laws which make it possible (legal) to use two wheels appropriate to the roads they are on and with dedicated lanes making a two wheeler safer to ride, it could change things dramatically for the better. Two wheels in town or locally in the country, three wheels for the lone or light traveler and larger vehicles given less priority as their numbers decline would make a difference.

Even if the Elio does not survive to market, my hope is that one of the big boys will take note of the support it has received from a lot of people who want to own and drive one... perhaps one of them will take it seriously and say, "you know, there's a market here. We could sell a lot of three wheelers as basic transportation, like a modern version of the old Model T Ford." Making a smallish profit on a lot of three wheelers adds up to a lot of money. Reversing the trend to smaller, more affordable, more fuel efficient would be a good thing. A really good thing.
SB
 

bluegoatwoods

Active Member
Jul 29, 2012
1,581
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Central Illinois
"Even if the Elio does not survive to market, my hope is that one of the big boys will take note of the support it has received from a lot of people who want to own and drive one... perhaps one of them will take it seriously and say, "you know, there's a market here. We could sell a lot of three wheelers as basic transportation, like a modern version of the old Model T Ford." Making a smallish profit on a lot of three wheelers adds up to a lot of money. Reversing the trend to smaller, more affordable, more fuel efficient would be a good thing. A really good thing." --Silverbear.

I've wished for the same thing. And I'm just dumbfounded that someone like Ford has not done it. I guess they must be sticking to that old-fashioned idea that 'Americans don't want a car like that'. Maybe that was true in 1960. But I'll bet that working class folks would just eat it up. (For that matter, the introduction and success of the Plymouth Valiant at about that time plus the success, that was just ramping up, of the Volkswagen at that time makes it seem that maybe it wasn't true even then.)

I'm reminded of a recent "Dilbert" comic strip. The title character is offering an idea to his boss and the company CEO. "I've developed a flying car that is fueled by ions that it gets from the air. We can build them for $3000 each".

The boss and the CEO are completely stone-faced as the CEO says, "There's no market for that".

It sounds ridiculous. Yet, reading between the lines as much as a peon is able to, I get the impression that the people who actually can get these innovations going often react just like that. It still seems hard to believe. But you just can't help the feeling that it happens.
 
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