Just switched to Opti2

chris8686 · Sep 24, 2013

I have run these 3 oils:
Maxima Castor 927 50:1
Amsoil Saber Pro 50:1
Opti2 70:1

Castor 927 will spooge all over unless your full throttle the flash point is too high and doesnt burn well in our motors. I am a putt putt rider. 927 is not for me. I had it mixed 50:1 using a #62 jet. Ran well but the spooge was unbearable unless i rode it hard.

Amsoil Saber is good oil..... very concentrated oil in fact. I think if it was possible to run 100:1 safely this might be it. I spoke with Pablo and he recommended running it at 50:1. Thought I would have to jet this mix down like I did with the Castor 927. Jetted correctly the carb wanted a #76 jet which tells me this oil is very thick. I would comfortably run this oil at 70-80:1.... but not 100:1. Sorry guys you cant replace quantity with film strength, mathematically it shouldn't work. As the RPM increases as does the lubrication needed to protect the motor. So going from barely any oil to next to no oil does not sound good to me. More oil never hurt a 2cycle.

Opti2 is awesome oil. The VP of sales for Interlube International (Opti2-4) Paul was at my house and we talked about oil mixes for a long time. He said don't :go leaner than 70:1 in the bike engines. The 1 gallon pouch of oil is a perfect 1.8oz which is a 70:1 mix. To jet this mix correctly the carb likes the #64 jet. No smoke, no spooge! As far as the 100:1 mix goes.... Opti2 site says nothing about it. Again.... no 100:1

I putt around on my bike, i keep the revs low and use my bike to commute to work and back. I can run a lean mix because of that. My bike rarely revs above 2500rpm (24mph in 6th gear with my shift kit) If i revved this thing to its full potential I would mix a heavier oil mix and use Castor 927 but I do not need the extra protection for the high rpm. Take this into consideration when your choosing an oil mix. Choose an appropriate mix for your riding style and make sure to jet it correctly! I always read about what people are mixing whatever oil to and never mention jetting at all.

Hopefully this sheds some light on all the bias people out there. There is no perfect oil mix for all 2 cycle applications. 32:1 50:1 100:1 are all ratios made popular by marketing and magazines. It is nice because it takes the guess work out of what ratio to run. I don't care what oil I use or at what ratio I use it at. It will be jetted correctly to run that ratio and I will probably have success with it. dance1

BarelyAWake · Sep 24, 2013

chris8686 said:
...Amsoil Saber is good oil..... very concentrated oil in fact. I think if it was possible to run 100:1 safely this might be it. I spoke with Pablo and he recommended running it at 50:1. Thought I would have to jet this mix down like I did with the Castor 927. Jetted correctly the carb wanted a #76 jet which tells me this oil is very thick. I would comfortably run this oil at 70-80:1.... but not 100:1. Sorry guys you cant replace quantity with film strength, mathematically it shouldn't work. As the RPM increases as does the lubrication needed to protect the motor. So going from barely any oil to next to no oil does not sound good to me. More oil never hurt a 2cycle...

Yep... except it does work & has for decades, since the late seventies at least & I've personally run 100:1 Amsoil Saber in these two-smokers for years, thousands of miles of outright abuse w/o any problems whatsoever and...

...dun-dun-dun, I even break-in at that ratio lol and you very much can "hurt a 2cycle" with too much oil, stuck rings, carbon deposits & hot spots are sure to follow if it's too much.

I don't recommend to others to immediately try 100:1 simply because there's no way of telling their relevant mechanical experience, can't be sure even if they're jetted properly as you've mentioned - which is probably why some retailers don't outright advocate it either, particularly w/these questionable lil engines.

On the other hand, you do know major, quality manufacturers such as Yamaha run 100:1 as the factory ratio both premix & later their oil injection? Here's an oldie but a goodie;

Here's an ongoing, over thousand post thread on the subject, the majority quite well satisfied with such a "lean" mix both Opti & Amsoil: 100:1 Mix

With these engines & the folks that get them - I always recommend they get whatever quality oil they're comfortable with and run what the oil manufacturer recommends for their product, a touch more if they're worried.

Anything else is just personal opinion *shrug*

2door · Sep 24, 2013

Ditto:
You gots to do what works for you. I'm a devoted member of the 100:1 club and I too break in at that ratio. Lots of miles accrued with nary a problem. Yep, jetting is critical. At my altitude of 6000msl, a jet size of .025-.026 seems to be perfect. Altitude above sea level will require adjustment to those jet orifice sizes. (I don't go by numbered jet size. They seem to be nebulous)

Tom

mapbike · Sep 25, 2013

I run Opti2 in all my 2 smokers, I have run the small pouches that are 1.8oz per gal 70:1 and I use the larger pouches that are 3.2oz per 2 1/2 gal of gasoline which is a 100:1 ratio and packaged by Opti2 for that ratio, my engines run the same either way, I have never needed to change the jet size to run either ratio, and every plug chop looks the same light to medium tan brown, I run at high rpm most of the time, just yesterday I road 11 miles on my bike with the Dax GenIV GP360 balanced lower, my tach was registered 8340rpm while cruising down the back side of some small hills and speedo setting dead on 45MPH, typically I cruise with a tach reading of around 7000+rpms and at 38-42mph I have run both ratios with no detectable difference in performance or plug reading.

I say to all that they should run what they are comfortable with because if it works for them that is all that matters, but it has been proven for thousands of miles that Opti2 is an extremely premium product that works perfectly at 100:1 with a well tuned engine.

This will be a topic of differing opinions until.......... when ever!

But as the old saying goes, " The proof is in the pudding" and Opti2 has many thousands of times over been proven to be excellent at 100:1 end of story...and another old saying comes to mind here "the fat lady has sang" on this one!

Again I say to each their own and whatever works... do it by all means!

Map
reddd

chris8686 · Sep 27, 2013

I waited to reply for a while to accumulate some miles on my bike with the 70:1 opti2 mix. I have the carb jetted pretty well, tan plug chops throughout the whole throttle range. This is a first for me by the way. All other mixes I listed above I tuned in a perfect WOT plug chop but always had a rich mid range (clip in highest notch.)

Onward with my review,
I have now gone threw a tank of gas.... which lasted considerably longer than normal. The motor spits very little spooge at 70:1, I do intend to run 100:1 once my gas can is empty. I did not notice any power difference I think it is a placebo effect people have. I don't much else to say really. The bike runs awesome.

I have 2 more packets of opti2 and then I am going to finish off my Amsoil Saber. I am having a difficult time deciding which oil to commit to for the life of the motor. I want to buy opti2 because it is a local made product where I am from, on the other hand Amsoil Saber is half the cost and I can purchase it across the street from my work. The 12oz bottle of opti is the same price as the quart bottle of Amsoil. I don't like how Amsoil is distributed and marketed..... and I also think Opti has a major lack of distribution and marketing.

Drewd · Sep 27, 2013

A high flashpoint and spooge as you call is is a good thing. By staying in liquid form longer, the lubricant is providing lubricant longer and protecting engine better. Once it flashes/burns, the lubricant is not doing its job.

I guess Optipube is good if you putz around at 20mph all day.

chris8686 · Sep 27, 2013

Drewd said:
A high flashpoint and spooge as you call is is a good thing. By staying in liquid form longer, the lubricant is providing lubricant longer and protecting engine better. Once it flashes/burns, the lubricant is not doing its job.

I guess Optipube is good if you putz around at 20mph all day.

My problem with the spooge is that it gets all over my back wheel which gums up the rim brakes and makes them squeal like compression brakes. I put over 100 miles on my bike with opti2 in the tank and it has the amount of spooge on the wheel I would have on it from 5 miles of 32:1 castor blend.

I've kicked it up to the high 20's for my cruising speed. The motor runs stronger and burns much cleaner

I have about 1/2 gallon of 70:1 opti left to run threw but when it is done I intend to mix it at 100:1 like it is designed to run. Right now my jetting is the #64 jet from SBP and the highest needle setting. I think when I lean the mix I'll have to drop to the #62

mapbike · Sep 28, 2013

Drewd said:
A high flashpoint and spooge as you call is is a good thing. By staying in liquid form longer, the lubricant is providing lubricant longer and protecting engine better. Once it flashes/burns, the lubricant is not doing its job.

I guess Optipube is good if you putz around at 20mph all day.

I run wot at around 8000 rpm at 40+ mph zero failures and runs like a scalded ape....... I wouldnt call that putzing around....... I run like this for miles not blocks........ and at 100:1

I can honestly say all the Opti haters are clueless about what they are missing....it always makes me laugh when I see/hear someone getting technical about wh Opti2 isn't any good....... to me its like someone arguing that the sky isn't blue anymore.

But I also respect everyones right to there opinions on it, but it has been proven to be an excellent product and I for one dont see a reasoning to fix something that aint broke so I will always run Opti2.

Peace, map
dnut

FMB42 · Sep 28, 2013

Well, my .02 is that I plan on quickly seating the rings on my new engine while running Maxima Castor 927 (@ 25:1). Once I feel that the rings are seated I'll finish the overall break-in by running a couple of gallons of 927 @ 34:1 thru it. Next I'll probably switch over to one of the Yamalubes (34:1), Amsoil Saber (50:1), or Opti-2 (@ maybe 60:1). But then again, I might just stick with the 927 (@34:1).

Overall reliability, performance, ride-ability, and idle quality will, of course, play a part in my final pre-mix brand and ratio decision. I also plan on "tuning" this engine for low and mid range power, so I might end up leaning my mix ratios out a bit.

Meanwhile, I find these "pre-mix" oil debates and experiences to be both informative and interesting...

mapbike · Sep 28, 2013

FMB42 said:
Well, my .02 is that I plan on quickly seating the rings on my new engine while running Maxima Castor 927 (@ 25:1). Once I feel that the rings are seated I'll finish the overall break-in by running a couple of gallons of 927 @ 34:1 thru it. Next I'll probably switch over to one of the Yamalubes (34:1), Amsoil Saber (50:1), or Opti-2 (@ maybe 60:1). But then again, I might just stick with the 927 (@34:1).

Overall reliability, performance, ride-ability, and idle quality will, of course, play a part in my final pre-mix brand and ratio decision. I also plan on "tuning" this engine for low and mid range power, so I might end up leaning my mix ratios out a bit.

Meanwhile, I find these "pre-mix" oil debates and experiences to be both informative and interesting...

Why not just put in it what you plan to run and just ride, if you have a good engine that has good bearings all the ratio switching back and forth isn't needed, but if a person wanted to do it for the fun of it and somehow they think it makes a different that is fine but I do mine just like every other two stroke engine that I have ever owned and from day one I put whatever mix and oil Im gonna run, I start the engine and get it to idle and I let I idler for a few minutes just to make sure all is good and then I get on the bike and go for a ride, I do take it easy and dont twist it up to high for the first few miles but after 5-10 miles I ride it just like I plan to ride it pretty much, either an engine is good or it isn't and if a bearing is questionable and flawed I have yet to see how more oil or riding it easy is gonna fix it.

I've had an engine that obviously had a bae lower rod bearing, I run 32:1 mx of a quality oil, road the bike easy for a fww miles all seemed good with it, but before I had 20 miles on it that lower bearing let go and trashed the top end and of course the crank.

Now I have started my engines off on Opti2, at either 70:1 or 100:1 not a bearing failure since and I dont putz mi e around much, I dont try to blow them up but I ride at a good cruise speedof 30+ mph on all three of my bikes and have found it to work out great for me while running opti2.

All this said I still say to each their own and I say do what you feel comfortable with but also I always look at what other have proven to be an exc llent way of doing something and I dont try to reinvent the wheel.

Peace, Map
.wee.

chris8686 · Sep 28, 2013

Castor 927 is a synthetic oil and I would not recommend it in your bike for a break in oil. This oil is for racing applications only. What that means is that unless your wide open all of the time this oil will not burn and plug up your motor with carbon. I was running this oil at 50:1 to attempt to lessen the amount of spooge leaking from my exhaust. I only ran this oil for a short while and my motor had a decent amount of carbon build up on the piston crown and the exhaust port had a thick layer on it as well.

So when choosing a oil to run in your HT make sure you know what application it is designed for. Racing oils are for high heat high rpm applications. Outboard oil is for outboard engines not air cooled engines. The outboard 2cycle engine is water cooled to run around 150F, our HT's run probably double that. Running an outboard oil will work in a pinch but remember its designed heat range is very low so when you exceed its flash point it stops lubricating your engine.

Now back to Opti2 and Saber:
These oils are very concentrated. I ran saber at 50:1 and with the factory installed jet I got a white plug. I thought that since I was lessening the amount of oil in the gas I was effectively making the air/fuel ratio richer which would result in a dark black or a wet plug. What this is telling me is that Saber Pro is possibly twice as concentrated as the other oils i was running at 32:1. Opti2 and Saber Pro are both 100:1 oils and have been around for 30 years at those recommended ratios. Which means if you mix them in a richer ratio like I did (70:1) then I believe you will have a result of black spooge dripping from your exhaust, carbon build up and reduced performance.

I read a major of the 100:1 great oil debate on here.... The people who tried the 100:1 oils seem to love them. The people who have not hate them. This is a normalcy bias, which means your cuddled up with your 32:1 safety blanket thinking that will be the only oil mix forever. I really recommend reading the thread and sifting threw all the bull**** to develop your own opinion, which I would hope is to try one of these oils.

I had Paul from Interlube International (Opti2) at my house and I kept fighting him about ratios... How 100:1 did not make sense. He just said try it. He gave me 3 1.8oz packets of Opti2 and now I can say there is no going back.

Cleaning buring, crisp throttle response, clean shoes and bike! Why would a company make an oil for 30 years at 100:1 and still recommend it today unless it worked! Say the company made it in 1975, if the oil was seizing engines from mixing it at 100:1 the company would have gone out of business probably in 1976!

try it, you'll like it is all I have to say!

chris8686 · Sep 28, 2013

I just did some quick math... If you purchase a gallon of opti2 which is about 65 dollars mixing 1.3oz per gallon would be enough to treat 98 gallons of gasoline. so lets say that your bike gets a cool 120mpg that would roughly equal 11,800 miles before needing to buy oil again.....

brnot

bairdco · Sep 28, 2013

I've always been a big fan of opti2 and one of the biggest proponents of it on this forum. it's awesome stuff and works amazing on my street bikes from day one.

But...

Using it in my race bikes wasn't working. running mostly wide open throttle on a street bile is much different than a race bike. on the street, you've got streetlights, slow traffic spots, smoke breaks, and if your bike sounds funny you stop and check it out.

At a race, it's over revving, wot for ten laps or so each time. at a mile per lap and 2 heats and a final, thats 30+ miles at 10,000 rpms, slipping clutches, lean conditions, and usually 85-100° outside temps.

Add in another 50 miles or so of practice laps and you're really asking a lot from any oil, as well as every part of your bike and body.

Engine starts clanking on the second to last lap? I'm not stopping to check. i'm running it into the ground.

I've crossed the finish line and had my bike lock up in the pits as the engine cools and the piston gives up the ghost.

In my experience, sadly, opti2 can't handle that extreme.

Now i run klotz or lucas at 20:1 in my race bikes.

But my street bikes and my moped loves opti2.

2door · Sep 28, 2013

Baird,
Next race season go back to our Opti and then tip in an ounce of fuel grade castor oil. I think you'll find that your engines will perform quite nicely, and you'll smell great going down the front stretch.

Tom

chris8686 · Sep 28, 2013

Baird,
Is your moped oil injected or premix? I just got a Honda spree and I am using maxima scooter pro currently. Are you an advocate of opti2 injector oil?

bairdco · Sep 28, 2013

Mine's premix. The only bike i ever had that was injected was a 1975 suzuki rv90 trail bike. and i just ran cheap oil from the gas station in it.

I've heard some horror stories of the injectors clogging or not delivering enough oil so if i ever get a bike with one, i'll either clean and rebuild it or get rid of it altogether.

chris8686 · Sep 28, 2013

bairdco said:
Mine's premix. The only bike i ever had that was injected was a 1975 suzuki rv90 trail bike. and i just ran cheap oil from the gas station in it.

I've heard some horror stories of the injectors clogging or not delivering enough oil so if i ever get a bike with one, i'll either clean and rebuild it or get rid of it altogether.

I believe a lot of those horror stories come from people using premix oils in an injection system. Premix oils are either 30w or 40w and injector oil is 20w. A lot of people with moped don't have a whole lot of knowledge on 2 cycles and probably dump in walmart junk and call it good dnut

bairdco · Sep 28, 2013

not too mention most of those bikes are 40 years old and full of crap...

FMB42 · Sep 29, 2013

mapbike said:
Why not just put in it what you plan to run and just ride, if you have a good engine that has good bearings

That, imo, would be perfectly OK with many of the finely engineered and assembled Japanese or European engines out there. However, most of these Chinese 2 stroke bicycle engines are anything but the above (from what I've both seen in person and read about in here).

chris8686 said:
Castor 927 is a synthetic oil and I would not recommend it in your bike for a break in oil. This oil is for racing applications only.

Maxima Castor 927 is a castor based synthetic blend. And my thoughts are that breaking-in the average Chinese 2 stroke bicycle engine would be akin to racing a well engineered Japanese or European motorcycle of which I've owned, rode, and privately and professionally maintained many of (including trail, street, road race, and motocross models made by Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, HD, Bultaco, and Huskvarna). The initial break-in friction, and the heat this friction generates, could be pretty high with these little Chinese engines (which is why I'm thinking of running a "racing" type oil during the break-in).

However, I might use a straight mineral oil of the proper type during the ring seating stage of the break-in (i.e. the first 15 - 20 minutes). I say this because many knowledgeable and experienced mechanic/tuners recommend straight mineral oils for initial ring seating and general break-in. A notable exception to this would be the many new vehicles, both 2 and 4 wheeled, that leave the assembly line with full synthetic engine oils (but again, these vehicles and our run-of-mill Chinese 2 stroke bicycle engines are two entirely different things).

Meanwhile, you could very well be correct in that I may not want to routinely run such a "racing" oil in my bike. I'll also admit that I could be "over-doing" the whole pre-mix thing when it comes to the switching of brands, types, and ratios. But the truth is that my motorized bicycles are more of a hobby to me than anything else (I don't think I'll be commuting to work on this, or any of the other motorized bicycles I have).

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's opinions and experiences on this topic and I look forward to seeing more of your valuable input.

mapbike · Sep 29, 2013

FMB42 said:
That, imo, would be perfectly OK with many of the finely engineered and assembled Japanese or European engines out there. However, most of these Chinese 2 stroke bicycle engines are anything but the above (from what I've both seen in person and read about in here).

Maxima Castor 927 is a castor based synthetic blend. And my thoughts are that breaking-in the average Chinese 2 stroke bicycle engine would be akin to racing a well engineered Japanese or European motorcycle of which I've owned, rode, and privately and professionally maintained many of (including trail, street, road race, and motocross models made by Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, HD, Bultaco, and Huskvarna). The initial break-in friction, and the heat this friction generates, could be pretty high with these little Chinese engines (which is why I'm thinking of running a "racing" type oil during the break-in).

However, I might use a straight mineral oil of the proper type during the ring seating stage of the break-in (i.e. the first 15 - 20 minutes). I say this because many knowledgeable and experienced mechanic/tuners recommend straight mineral oils for initial ring seating and general break-in. A notable exception to this would be the many new vehicles, both 2 and 4 wheeled, that leave the assembly line with full synthetic engine oils (but again, these vehicles and our run-of-mill Chinese 2 stroke bicycle engines are two entirely different things).

Meanwhile, you could very well be correct in that I may not want to routinely run such a "racing" oil in my bike. I'll also admit that I could be "over-doing" the whole pre-mix thing when it comes to the switching of brands, types, and ratios. But the truth is that my motorized bicycles are more of a hobby to me than anything else (I don't think I'll be commuting to work on this, or any of the other motorized bicycles I have).

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's opinions and experiences on this topic and I look forward to seeing more of your valuable input.

From what I've read in your post I can tell you're no noob when it comes to engines so im sure you'll find what you feel wors best for you.

Like the old saying goes " there is more than one way to skin a cat " these little engines are no different.

Map

Just switched to Opti2

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