Is 89 octane really the best fuel to use?

GoldenMotor.com

CaliRebel

New Member
Apr 4, 2011
74
2
0
Santa Barbara, CA
I've read recommendations suggesting not to use regular(87) gasoline because knocking is a fatal condition in 2-strokes, also why you shouldn't add too much oil to your mix. Yet I also assume they don't recommend premium(91) because the engine may not generate enough compression or spark and accidentally flood the engine.

Is there a real reason why you should use 89 instead of 91 or is it just the 10 cents? I error on the side of not being too eager and just buying 89, but if anyone can shed more professional light on the issue, I'm always curious about these sorts of things. I also want to be able to pass on good advice.
 

DaveC

Member
Jul 14, 2010
969
1
18
Boise, ID
The higher the octane the slower the burn. Raising the compression makes the fuel burn faster and easier. Higher Octane is used to slow down combustion for maximum benefit. Too high of an Octane rating in low compression motors will actually lower power output.
 

CaliRebel

New Member
Apr 4, 2011
74
2
0
Santa Barbara, CA
I'm mostly wondering about the 2-stroke China engines. Mine is listed with a compression ratio of 7:1 which doesn't seem high, but I was looking for informed opinions about what people use in their bikes and if they think 87 isn't enough. Considering the mileage the bikes get it's probably worth babying them, but I like to be educated.
 

dmb

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
1,354
3
36
lakewood ca
if it doesn't pre-ignite [ping] use it. we are spoiled here in the u.s. in that our bad gas is better than most of the world's best gas before it goes into their rusty,dirty,watery storage tanks or drum's. don't forget a clean filter goes a long way preventing carb problem's once its right. i like adjustable main jet's but the smog police wont have it!
 

CaliRebel

New Member
Apr 4, 2011
74
2
0
Santa Barbara, CA
I'm glad to know people aren't seeing engine damage with low quality gas. I figure these engines aren't normally very stressed, but I liked to be informed. Thanks for the input.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Champ66

flybytaco

Metal Molding Madman
Oct 17, 2009
1,170
8
0
seekonk MASS
i dont run pump gas in any of my powersports. i run vp ms103 unleaded oxygenated. every time i try pump gas in my mtb it pings bad on the dirt track not with the vp.
 

DaveC

Member
Jul 14, 2010
969
1
18
Boise, ID
I've had good luck with Shell V-Power but I'm still switching to Trick because they add Ethanol to all the gas here now.

Potato farmers, ya know ;)
 

moonshiner

New Member
Apr 23, 2011
199
0
0
tennessee
alcohol in the gas will send a two stroker to its death quicker than anything , i try to run straight gas in everything i own but its just getting harder to find , i did have about 4 Indian markets close that sold real gas until the feds busted them and made em start selling the methanol laced stuff , marvels mystery oil combats the bad effects of alcohol very well , oh i just use 87 in everything , tried it all , all i found different was the price ...brnot
 

give me vtec

New Member
Jun 19, 2009
166
1
0
SoCal
i did a compression test on a high comp slant head.... if I remember correctly it was about 89 psi. the b16a in my crx came from japan and is designed to run on 93 octane. the compression in that motor runs about 169 psi at a 10.4:1 compression ratio... so 83 octane is more than adequate for the Chinese motors.

the air isn't compressed enough on our little engines to reach the point of self ignition (detonation). if your engine is detonating it would most likely be a cooling issue.

too much oil creates a lean condition. the ratio needs to be a certain percentage of gasoline to oil... increasing the amount of oil decreases the amount of fuel that is being delivered.
 
Last edited:

Pilotgeek

New Member
Apr 6, 2011
403
0
0
Green Bay, WI
These engines have such low compression you could run them on extremely low octane fuels. As long as your engine isn't modified, 87 works great. The ethanol does not hurt it at all (in fact, seems to make mine run a bit better), however, you should make sure it's tuned properly for 10% ethanol. It does burn a bit hotter, so watch out for that and make sure you aren't lean.

I've tried 93 octane, 87 octane, and non-ethanol 89 octane. The 87 runs just as well as any of the others.
 

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
32
Florida
Ethanol is the killer for all small engines. Boaters like me have realized that. it messes up the carbs. their are only 2 stations in my town that sell nonethanol gas. and they are on opisite ends of town and im in the middle. id have to go over a bridge and 3 miles to it. or go thru the heart of my city and across 30 streets just to fill up my few gas cans and by boats. yes i said boat's.i own 2 boats
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
7,194
21
0
Maine
While not an avid ethanol proponent, it can be worked with - which is good as we don't seem to have much choice lol

Lower concentrations of ethanol in our fuel (like E10) has only two problematic effects relevant to our use, both of which are pretty straightforward - the deterioration of elastomers (rubber-like parts) like seals and other components & phase separation. Ethanol is also a solvent, so filters should be examined regularly for debris. While your fuel tanks may be clean, it's unlikely the station's are and contamination is common.

Unlike modern outboards, our kits have few rubber/plastic components exposed to fuel, the only one of consequence is ofc the fuel line itself, easily replaced when needed. While the floats are plastic, they seem to be quite alcohol resistant and haven't proved a problem. Unlined fiberglass fuel tank deterioration is one of the problems experienced by boaters for example, in time the dissolved residue makes a horrid mess of the entire fuel system.

Phase separation can be far more problematic in our application, particularly with the two strokes & is another reason why boaters seem to have been experiencing greater difficulty. Water & alcohol mix quite easily whereas water and gasoline/oil does not, if enough water is introduced into the fuel (condensation & even ambient humidity) the water is drawn into the ethanol and the mixture will separate from the gasoline, forming a layer at the bottom of the tank. This water & ethanol blend will displace the oil & fuel mix as it's heavier, causing both a lack of lubrication as well as ignition difficulties as it's introduced into the engine.

As a result, care should be used to reduce the introduction of any water into the fuel by using clean, nonvented containers (typical gas can) stored in a stable temperature, preferably indoors & out of direct sunlight. If your MB is going to be sitting for any longer than a month, the fuel should be drained completely as the "shelf life" of an ethanol blend is only about 2-4 weeks, depending on storage & exposure.

Given our reduced consumption rates and shelf life of ethanol, no more than two gallons of fuel should be purchased at a time - or whatever you would normally use in a month.


While the effectiveness of ethanol as a fuel additive to reduce our petroleum consumption is highly controversial, it's introduction is widespread & inevitable. To my knowledge not all fuel stations are required to label their pumps with the given amount of ethanol (private tanks like marinas for example), so unless it's advertised specifically as "alcohol free" you should assume it has some ethanol content. The actual ethanol content can also vary wildly from what it's been labeled as in any case. Yet with a few easy precautions ethanol blend fuels can be used effectively in our simplistic fuel systems without adverse effect.
 
Last edited:

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
32
Florida
Very true barelyawake. Ethanol is an annoyance. Nearly every gas stations aells gas with it in their gas. it doesnt messup big engines either, so most people dont even know or carebwhat ethanol really can do to a small engine. . .especially the carb and fuel line.
 

5-7HEAVEN

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2008
2,661
240
63
I'm running 87 Octane/Chevron for my Tanaka 47R racing engine. It has 7.4:1 compression ratio. Plug color looks light chocolate, no pinging.xct2
 

gubba

New Member
Dec 29, 2008
149
0
0
jacksonville, florida
your 'high test' gas is the blend that has the detergents and cleaners
these 'keep a car motor running super clean'
they will wash the oil off the piston walls' no good!
i find the middle grade runs a hair better than the lowes grad. with my RAW motors there is no pinging with either

stay dry

gubba
 
Last edited:

bigbutterbean

Active Member
Jan 31, 2011
2,417
3
38
Lebanon, PA
Actually, ethanol mixed with gasoline is GOOD for your engine. I did a lot of research on the subject, and everywhere I read said that ethanol when mixed with gasoline allows gasoline to burn a few degrees cooler than straight gas. I never read one thing that said ethanol was bad. I think people get confused because ethanol by itself burns hotter than gasoline. I use 89 and fill up at any regular gas station. The only gas station around here that sells straight gas would take me half a tank to get back and forth to, and costs a dollar more per gallon.
 

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
32
Florida
Ethanol is in no way good for your carbuerator. It will damage your carb. It does it on all small engines. It screwed up my boats carbuerator. We finally got a whole new motor because of it. Now we only run the non-ethanol. Ethanol may run cooler, but its not good for your carbuerator. I promise u. It will eventually do damage beyond repair.