Help Needed, No fuel fkow

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ahdunno

New Member
Nov 14, 2012
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Apopka (Orlando), FL
Help Needed, No fuel flow

I blew an upper connector rod bearing and it took the rings too.
I installed a new bearing and rings and now I have no fuel flow.
Good compression (No gauge though) and I can feel a vacuum pull on the manifold with the carb off. It looks as though there is some fuel in the cylinder. When I pulled the head, the cylinder is wet but the plug seems dry with only a faint smell of fuel.
It has spark and I just tried fresh fuel mix, it just won't start.
I've also checked the float level and the inlet and jet on the carb (Stock NT) for blockage.
I also pulled the magnet to check if the key was OK and it is. The magnet seems to be in the correct position when the piston is TDC going by pictures I've seen on the web.

I'm baffled. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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dodge dude94

New Member
Jun 8, 2012
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East Texas
I honestly see no reason a blown rod bearing would impede fuel flow unless the jet is clogged. I would take a needle or something real small and punch through the jet (bowl side up me thinks) and try to dislodge anything that might be stuck in it. Considering how badly these engine spit fuel back through the carb, it's not entirely out of the question.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
I'd like a better defination of "no fuel flow". What exactly do you mean by that? Its easy to determine if fuel is flowing into the carburetor from the tank. Remove the float bowl, open the petcock and look for fuel flowing from the float needle valve. If it doesn't flow you have an obstruction in either the petcock, the internal filter on the end of the petcock or a plugged external filter, if you have one.

Have you looked at the inside of the carburetor? Is the main jet still screwed in place? Does the throttle work correctly when you twist the grip?

If you're saying the engine doesn't run, that doesn't necessarily mean there is no fuel flow. It needs three things to start; air, fuel and ignition. Have you confirmed you have those three?

Choke open?
Fuel flow to carb?
Got spark?

Tom
 

ahdunno

New Member
Nov 14, 2012
32
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0
Apopka (Orlando), FL
The fuel flow I'm talking about is the actual draw of fuel to the engine from the carb. The fuel line is clear and the bowl fills fine. I use an in line filter and pulled the petcock to check if the in tank screen was clogged. The main jet is clear as well. The carb slide works freely within the throat.
My needle has 4 settings and I ran it on the highest(top) notch previously. I've tested trying to start it with all 4 notches. Now, the needle is raised all the way, letting in as much fuel as possible and with the choke partially closed I can get it to semi start. It barely runs while pedaling and then stalls if I pull in the clutch. I also tried adjusting the float level to let more gas in to the carb bowl. I went from the standard 21mm to 20mm and currently its at 19mm.

I'm starting to suspect a compression problem. Maybe lower seals? Or a bad cylinder? I can't get it running to check for air leaks.

Like I posted, I have spark. Through the diagnosis procedure, I've tried a different magneto and CDI all of which tested good with a meter. No matter the combination of CDI and mag, the starting issue remained constant and spark was present. The best results I've had spark plug wise was using an NGK B5HS gapped at .035. I tried .022, .025 and .030 as well. Normally I run a B6HS gapped at .028 but tried the 5 with all those gaps in an attempt to get the motor running.

I worked on it all day today.... about 12 hours before I gave up. In the morning, I'm pulling the cylinder for a better inspection to see if I can find any cracks and to reseal it as well. I have no base gasket and use Permatex black non-hardening for assembly.

A note as well about head gaskets... I was running 2 but have tested it with this issue with 3 and only 1. Best results as far as "semi" starting have been with 2.

One question maybe some one can answer... When I pulled the magnet to check the key, there was a a some sort of seal or gasket behind it. Black in color, either hard rubber or soft plastic approx 1" diameter with the diameter of the shaft in the center. It's recessed on one side and I'm not certain of which way it installs as it was loose when I pulled the magnet. Currently, I reinstalled it with the recess out and tapped it back in to where it fits tightly. It's almost like a dust seal. So, if someone is familiar with this, my question is does it go recess in or out?

Some might ask if I put the magnet back the right way, and yes I did. The black seal thing I mentioned left residue on the back of the magnet while the front was clean, allowing for determination of the magnet's proper re installation.

That's most of the info I can think of right now.
Thanks for the responses so far.
 
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maniac57

Old, Fat, and still faster than you
Oct 8, 2011
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memphis Tn
What oil ratio are you using? The kit instructions are very wrong when they tell you to use 16:1.
32:1 or 40:1 is what you should use. Too much oil can make it very hard to start.
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
I think you might want to replace that seal. It goes on so the flat side is out, but you may have damaged it or lost the little spring that holds the inner lips tight to the crank.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
The lip, or open side of the seal goes to the inside. If there was residue that generally means the rotor (magnet) was rubbing the seal and that will quickly destroy its ability to do its job. Also removing a seal will usually damage it too. It isn't uncommon for the crankshaft seals to be either cocked in the bore where they seat, a manufacturing error, or not driven in completely.

You'll need a new seal. There are two; one behind the rotor and the other behind the primary (small) gear on the right side. They are different sizes, one thick, one thin. The thinner one goes behind the rotor. As long as you're replacing one you might as well do both.

Clean the bore where the seal goes, lubricate the crankshaft and seal lip with 2 stroke oil before driving the new seal in. There are seal driver tools but a socket of the correct size, just a little smaller than the bore, can be used too.

Just a thought, but when you installed the piston did you align the arrow on the top to point toward the exhaust port? Sometimes the arrow is hard to see but it is there.

Good luck.

Tom
 
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ahdunno

New Member
Nov 14, 2012
32
0
0
Apopka (Orlando), FL
Tom-
Thanks for the input on the seals. Would those seals being bad affect the engine's compression?

Also, the piston is in correct. Shortly after break-in, I removed the manifold and scribed the skirt to match the port and then filed it out. Now it serves as a quick reference for orientation. I also only remove one clip on the rod when pulling the piston. Most of my tinkering is done on the left side of the bike with the exceptions of clutch adjustment or draining fuel.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
Generally speaking a bad crankshaft seal will give you a lean condition due to an excess of air entering from where it isn't supposed to; downstream of the carburetor. The engine should start and run but won't idle well and you'll see a loss of power. Crankcase compression is affected but not combustion chamber compression that much.

Just noticed your location. My ex and I used to fly up from Miami and land at Carter field. Back then it was a little private grass strip but the friend we used to visit there, who lived in Plymouth, knew the owner and he would let us park the plane there for the weekend. I have some fond memories of fishing with my old buddy on the lake but alas he left us in the late 90s.
Carter field might not be there anymore. Knowing Florida's growing population its probably covered with houses by now. Too bad. It was a great little strip that was as smooth as landing on a golf course green. Progress, bah!

Let me know if I can offer anymore help with your problem.

Tom