Cold weather clutch slip?

Chaz · Jan 9, 2016

I noticed my clutch slip a bit when the first cold front settled in my area for a few days. I'm also guilty of not warming up for a few minutes, I just start up and go real easy for a few minutes. Anyway, I adjusted the flower to compensate a bit and that helped for a while. Then after a week or so when another cold snap hit she started to slip again. I took off the outer plate and had a look. There was a mirror finish on the outside half of what should be the contact surface and no wear on the inside part. I'm going to get the glass and sandpaper to bring that whole area down to a consistent contact. I noticed no oil or grease on the pads, they were glazed up so they'll get scuffed and cleaned as well. When I grease the gears I use a small artist paint brush to paint a thin coat on the gears to avoid any excess and not contaminate the pads and plate.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this cold weather phenomenon.

sbest · Jan 9, 2016

Chaz I am out in -2c to -4c and no problems but the engine only has 300 miles or so on it.
I don't seem to notice any temperature effect on my clutch. It is polished smooth too.
I do not warm up either. I have it jetted lean so I have to use choke and run a bit to go.
When it starts making power, I use it, usually WOT. Still close to stock.

Steve

Chaz · Jan 9, 2016

Steve, thanks for the input. I've got the plate on my lap now and the wear pattern is abstract so going to level it out. I was concerned about sanding out the tiny divots but I think even and complete contact is the priority.

ride on

Chaz · Jan 9, 2016

Didn't work.

Suspect #2
Burrs left from factory punching holes in the plate.
De-burred.... Didn't work

Suspect #3
Tired and fraying clutch cable.

Will fix tomorrow.

2door · Jan 9, 2016

Suspect #3 doesn't sound like the problem to me. Even if the cable is not in good shape it should have no impact on clutch friction. If the clutch fully engages, which it should even without a cable, it shouldn't slip.

I'm more inclined to think friction pad wear or the internal spring needs attention.

How many miles on this engine, Chaz?

Tom

Chaz · Jan 9, 2016

Hey Tom, I didn't fully describe the problem. I can adjust the flower nut for full contact and no slippage. However, I cannot find that happy medium where the clutch will engage properly and still be able to use the lever lock so there is no drag. If I depress the lever the clutch fully disengages. That's why I'm thinking the cable has just enough slop to prevent the lock out from doing its job.

I like to have that lockout working proper for sitting at lights etc.

2door · Jan 9, 2016

Ahhhh, okay. Now I get it. In that case, yes, a loose cable certainly will effect the way the clutch lever lock button functions.

I like little to no slack in the cable where it attaches to the engine clutch actuator arm. I don't want them bow string tight, but just snug enough to take any slack out.

Also the handlebar clutch lever can wear at the point where the lock button engages. Check for that too.

Tom

MEASURE TWICE · Jan 10, 2016

If cable could be an issue if it worked at one time, and now specifically it is a colder temperate outside, I think cold constriction of the cable cover. Also if cable and cover lubricated with something that gets to be less effective as a lubricant in cold weather. I've used just the dry graphite powder.

My brother had a motorcycle where he was still 20 miles from home and had to shift gears when a clutch cable broke. He tried to match speed when shifting, but broke a lot of clutch plates and had to repair it all later.

My bike is automatic centrifugal clutch, so should the clutch not grab, I should have maybe a clever backup, other than removing the belt from rear wheel sheave and walking it back. It could be possible to carry a 3 inch pulley and a v-belt the right length to operate it as push and go... no idle though... just a rescue kit with assy/dis-assy tools.

MT

Chaz · Jan 10, 2016

Thank you Tom and MT. As it turns out the cold was at fault for freezing my brain. Can't believe I missed the importance of the cable adjustment. My mind got thinking one way and that was that.

So, all I had to do was adjust the play a bit at the hand lever. Now it's perfect. No drag in the lockout position and full clutch contact with no slip.

At least I got a freshened clutch out of the deal and a lesson in the obvious. Also led me to a need to re-cut my cable to a fresh part before it just snaps in the middle of a ride.

One good thing I did a few years ago was use a piece of small spring wound around the bottom clutch lever/arm to keep the little brass goober from disappearing in case the cable snaps. I learned that when the cable did snap one time but I was lucky enough to find it on the road.

So I admitted my guilt and was sentenced to two glasses of scotch.

MEASURE TWICE · Jan 10, 2016

The scotch will prevent your brain from freezing.... but there are draw back

I used to take off the air-filter on both auto and lawn mower and had a bottle of ether. This got things going in the freezing winter temps. Other neighbors with trouble starting their cars may have had similar in the spray canned stuff. I'm not sure, but once really cold extended time in a stretch in the winter the bottle of ether partially froze I think. Just have to have enough extra compression space (compressible air). Would not be good to have the bottle crack and spill chunks of glass and frozen ether.

MT

sbest · Jan 10, 2016

Half the guy I know shift their motorbikes with no clutch, although broken and worn clutch fingers and shift dogs are not uncommon either. I tend to be a clutcher, but I suffer more burnt plates than the jammers. This is in enduro riding and I am no expert in spite of 4 decades of experience.

With snowmobiles those of us who venture miles from nowhere often have a plan to cover anything that could go wrong. One is starting the sled with a rope on the output pulley. If pullcord and/or electric starter fail, we have 4' of cord in the trunk to get it going. For your bike I'd suggest a pin or device to lock the clutch?

Chaz, target fixation can happen in any temperature. I had problems with my clutch lever not coming back soon after I started riding. I tore the clutch completely apart to see what was happening, found nothing. It was the lever bound up in the cover. It was new, no grease on it and it was full of sand and mud. Duh! Start with the simple things.

Great idea on wrapping the cable to preserve the brass end. Thanks.

Steve

MEASURE TWICE · Jan 10, 2016

I have a way of transporting my off-road bike that entails having another handle bar and stem with one hand brake lever to swap temporarily it in place on the bike. This so it does hold in place during transit.

A separate v-brake is on those handle bars just used for transport. The v-brake that comes off and just is temporarily not in place on the front wheel is the problem.

I found with vibration in transport of the bike loosening of the brake pad adjustment screw happens and the spring falls out along with the screw and both are lost. I tape it in place now always as a measure to prevent this. It is not a problem when installed on the bike as the screw is then compressing the friction adjusting spring.

I have so many extras of everything, but while on the trails you have to keep it down to what is important. How about a tow rope!

I've not done that, and if I did I would rather a fire road first to train on how to be the powered one or the towed one.

See trail ruts!

MT

sbest · Jan 10, 2016

I do actually carry a rope on my bike, quad and under the hood of my sled:

To tow the motorcycle, the rope is twisted two wraps around the handle bar and held with your thumb. The rope can be released at any time by lifting your thumb. The rope hangs down and is slung under the right edge of the front wheel axle so the pull is low. It has to pull low on the bike to get over rocks without heeling you over on your nose. I busted rings a couple times and got the 125 started on a tow with absolutely NO compression. 2 strokes are amazing. With this system you can tow out in the roughest conditions. Done it many times.

Steve

Cooking fish out on the trail:

Legwon · Jan 11, 2016

i think it would depend on where you store your ride Chaz.
mine is inside nightly. i dont have issue getting going.
though one day i had a few hrs at one shop, then had to go to the other... Clutch arm was frozen and had to forcibly move the arm manually.. handle did nothing.
perhaps the moisture in the air, combined with the temps.. is affecting your ride?

biknut · Jan 11, 2016

The best way to cure clutch slipping is to make sure your pads fit loosely in the drive plate. Usually from the factory the pads are stuffed so tightly in the drive plate that they can't float freely into position, resulting in contact being mostly on one side of the pad. Usually the pressure plate side.

The fix is to remove the pads and carefully file the edges of each pad so it fits loosely in the drive plate.

Chaz · Jan 11, 2016

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen. As it turned out, all I had to do was adjust the cable at the hand lever. I suffered from "target fixation" which was correctly diagnosed by Steve (see above photos). Can't believe I missed the bloody obvious.

I do keep her inside at night, except for one night when I left her outside the building front entrance... under a light... with no lock. Came out in the morning and she was still there. That's why I always have one for the angels whenever I have a dram of the scotch whiskey... out of respect and gratitude.

I did notice that the pads were tight in their holes, so thanks for that tip which may come in handy.

Also, as fate would have it, on the way home from a bit of a run I was about five blocks away from home when the suspect cable snapped. Lucky for me I had wired the brass cable end to the lever/arm so it was there to re-use.

bairdco · Jan 12, 2016

If the cable fix worked, that's good. But polishing the clutch plate is a bad idea. A super smooth finish is as bad as glazed pads.

I rough up the surface with a sanding disc, much like you would on brake rotors on a car. Not enough so the pads will shred, obviously, but enough to provide a grippy surface.

Adjustment is also key. A dragging clutch will glaze over, as well as slipping the clutch to much on take-offs. It's a pain at first to get it just right, but after a bunch of times, it's simple.

Also, when you adjust the flower nut, it changes the angle of the clutch arm, so you need to adjust your cable tension, too.

Chaz · Jan 12, 2016

Thanks for the input, Bairdo. Yeah, I sanded the contact area level and scuffed up the surface. No polishing. I have it working perfect now.

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