Expansion chamber- Treatlandtv...?

GoldenMotor.com

racing fan

New Member
Apr 17, 2011
124
0
0
Michigan
If you want a performance pipe the best thing you can do is make it yourself but that req. a bit of time and math skills. Now to the point I think it would be a good pipe but If your looking for 100% from your exhaust I think you would half to build that yourself.

All in all it's a nice exhaust!

Nice to see someone else that knows about Treat Land as I haven't seen anyone else mention it. They have a lot of nice Peugeot 103 and Puch parts too.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
What motor do you have? 48 or 66cc?

To know what Xchamber to get you need to understand how they work and that they need to be tuned to the motor or they don't do squat, at least not in the power band where you may want it to kick in.

Like your ignition, it is all a matter of timing, and timing depends on RPM, hence why you want to be able to tune the pipe to the RPM range where you want the boost.

The object of an X pipe is to shove the wasted fresh fuel mix that goes out with the exhaust back into the cylinder just before the port closes on the way up.
Too soon and you are shoving spend fuel exhaust back in, too late and the port is already closed and it does nothing.

I find this animated .gif from SpookyTooth to be worth 1,000 words if you watch it long enough to understand the principle.



That said for the best tuneable performance I like the SIckBikes X chamber.
It has a straight copper piece you can cut to tune it.
For a 48cc with the power at lower RPM leave it full length.
To get the most out of a 66cc from midrange up cut that piece in half.
~$80 delivered but a bit unruly to install as it has 5 pieces, but that is what allows you to 'pipe it' however you want.

One complaint about the SBP pluming is some is steel, some is copper, so you can't weld the 2 together so they include some hose to hold the connections on the outside. Metals that could weld together would be nice ;-}

On my 66cc personal ride I cut the straight tube in half then plumbed it snug up under the motor and above the bottom bracket, then capped it with a foot long 3" glass pack from the local muffler shop for $50.
(cool story about that but I'll spare you hehehe)

That is too much work for my average customers budget so I also found this one piece that does a pretty good job.

The single piece X I use is the one from JNMotors
http://www.jnmotorsbikes.com/product_p/jnm1189.htm
$50 plus a whooping $20 S&H!

Do NOT confuse this pipe with the 'fat boy' from a pocket bike others sell.
They look the same in pictures but they aren't.

I tried a Fat Boy on 5 different bikes and could never get it to work as is. It is shorter than the JN one and always seems to end right up against the Bottom Bracket.
I guess that's why they say it 'may need some bending', Pffftttt on that.

One last thing...
DO NOT use flexible tubing between the cylinder and Xchamber.
It is just to 'bumpy' inside.

For the wave front to pass intact to the back of the X part of the chamber and bounce back to push the wasted fresh fuel back in you want as smooth and gently curved as possible tube.

After that you can do whatever you want, like lowering the pitch of the exhaust closer to the sound of a quite Harley than an a gas powered blower like I did ;-}

Anyway, just passing on what I've learned so far.
I learned a lot from members here when I started, and the tradition continues.
 
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mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
5,502
109
63
Central Area of Texas
Thanks fella's, I understand how expansion pipes work and that they can be tuned for low end Mid or High end power, I'm by no means a pro at them though.......LOL!

These little engines probably aren't gonna deliver a great deal more with an expan. pipe than they do with a good free flowing exhaust, but every little bit helps... I have a SBP expan. pipe on one of my bikes, it performs pretty good.

I kinda always think about bairdco's bikes and how his will out run probably 95%+ of all the rest of the bikes around that have expansion pipes and he doesn't use them on his builds or at least not the ones I've seen, I have three bikes one with expan. pipe and just home built free flowing exhaust on the other two, bike with expansion pipe runs good but doesn't out run or out pull the others, the expan. pipe is just quiter.

What I was mainly asking is if anyone else had used that treatland pipe I listed a link too and if so what is it's total length, I'm planning to reverse the jug on an engine and I'd like to use an expansion pipe like this one if it's not to big, from others I have read listing from on the forum, it seems that 10'' - 12'' is a pretty good lead off pipe length from port to expansion pipe or at least a good place to start, I may just have to call Treatland and get more demensions of that pipe.

Thanks again for all the great info. racing fan & KCvale,

I will do some tune experimenting when I get that engine done if I have time, I'm thinking about building a pipe that slides into another pipe and play with finding that optimal length for the midrange power, will be a bit before I have time to mess with it but I'm trying to get a few things together.

Peace, Map
 

motor_bike_fanatic

New Member
Jul 26, 2011
377
2
0
Pennsylvania
There is a lot of theory on how expansion chambers work, and a lot of technical explanations on tuning and jetting. Then there is what actually works. First off, the size of the chamber and the size of the engine have nothing to do with each other. the right length header will draw peak performance from any size engine. short header=pipe comes on at higher rpms. long header, lower rpms. I bought a pocketbike pipe and modded it to fit my bike. I cut the flange off the pocketbike pipe and the entire header off my stock muffler. i glassed it back together and painted with high temp paint. had it almost a year now and its still together. the header is as long as i could make it without running into my crank, and I have pretty good performance. i gained 9 mph and some serious hill climbing ability. the pipe was sold for 48cc pocketbikes and i have a 68.5cc engine. Now onto rejetting. If you tune your carb right, there should be no need to rejet. I see rejetting as the lazy man's way of dialing in the chamber. when I installed my pipe, I played around with my idle screw and my needle clip position till I got the right fuel-air mixture. Once I leaned the needle out enough, my electrode went from grey to light brown. So tune your header and your carb and you can get peak performance out of any pipe.
 

mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
5,502
109
63
Central Area of Texas
Thanks for the great info.

Peace, Map (^)


There is a lot of theory on how expansion chambers work, and a lot of technical explanations on tuning and jetting. Then there is what actually works. First off, the size of the chamber and the size of the engine have nothing to do with each other. the right length header will draw peak performance from any size engine. short header=pipe comes on at higher rpms. long header, lower rpms. I bought a pocketbike pipe and modded it to fit my bike. I cut the flange off the pocketbike pipe and the entire header off my stock muffler. i glassed it back together and painted with high temp paint. had it almost a year now and its still together. the header is as long as i could make it without running into my crank, and I have pretty good performance. i gained 9 mph and some serious hill climbing ability. the pipe was sold for 48cc pocketbikes and i have a 68.5cc engine. Now onto rejetting. If you tune your carb right, there should be no need to rejet. I see rejetting as the lazy man's way of dialing in the chamber. when I installed my pipe, I played around with my idle screw and my needle clip position till I got the right fuel-air mixture. Once I leaned the needle out enough, my electrode went from grey to light brown. So tune your header and your carb and you can get peak performance out of any pipe.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
There is a lot of theory on how expansion chambers work, and a lot of technical explanations on tuning and jetting.
Then there is a picture worth 1000 words.



Blue is plain air, green is fueled air, gray is exhaust.
Note it is the percussion wave (black arrows) that push the unburned fuel back in, not the gray exhaust gasses themselves.