Engine won't turn over

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BikeGuyver

Member
Jun 20, 2010
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Sacramento, CA
Got everything hooked up. Clutch working correctly, although it is still hard to pedal in normal, not motorized mode. When I got the kit the front sprocket was extremely difficult to turn, so I had to use the clutch to put the chain on. Pedaled, let go of the clutch, and I would just skid to a stop. Put the chain tensioner on, and turned the crank with all my might, trying to break the engine in. Now, instead of skidding while I try to start it, it will just gradually come to a stop. No bang, no engine noises, just the whirr of me slowing down. It is still extremely difficult to turn the front sprocket, even with the spark plug out. I put a tablespoon of oil in the spark plug hole, and I'm going to try starting it again in a few hours. Chain is true and tight. I have read alot of troubleshooting threads on here and can't seem to solve the problem. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. :-||
 

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2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
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Littleton, Colorado
Lets start from the first and take your comments as they were posted.
1. Even with the clutch operating normally a motorized bicycle is going to be harder to pedal than one without a motor. It's the nature of the beast due to the chain/tensioner/clutch and cross shaft friction. The only way to revert to a normal pedal feel is to remove the chain. Even then you have to consider that you've added about 25 pounds of weight to the bike.
2. As the engine runs more the resistance in the drive sprocket will decrease. All new engines are a little stiff until they get some miles on them.

So now we come to the part where you can not get the engine to run. You need three things: Fuel, air and an ignition source. If you need help determining if all three of these are present get back to us.
From your photos I'll make a couple of suggestions that might save you some headaches in the near future. You need to secure the chain tensioner bracket to assure that it can not loosen and rotate into the rear spokes. There is lots of discussion on this forum about that tensioner and what to do with it. Use the search feature and read.
Those plug-in wire connectors that come in the kit are notorious for causing problems. Most of us cut them off, throw them away and solder the wires together using heat shrink tubing to protect the connection. It also appears that the end of the white wire is exposed. It needs to be insulated so it cannot come in contact with the engine or frame.
Get back to us with what you find or if these suggestions don't solve your problems.
Tom
 

BikeGuyver

Member
Jun 20, 2010
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Thanks for your reply 2door.

OK, with the clutch handle held in, and either moving the bike across the ground, or having someone pedal, I get no spark.

Fuel is OK. Choke I have tried on, off, & in-between.

I'm not sure if the throttle is hooked up correctly, I can only open it a few millimeters.

Ok so I took off the fuel line, then removed the carburetor. A bunch of fuel came leaking out and now it looks like my air filter is soaked. The spring seems too compressed to allow me to turn the throttle.

But I'm assuming my main problem is that there doesn't seem to be a spark. I thought the clutch had to be released in order to get a spark.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
BG,
Yes the clutch lever needs to be released,(engaged) to prove spark. With the handle bar lever left alone, not pulled in or locked, the clutch is 'engaged'. That way when you pedal/spin the rear wheel, the engine is rotated and the magneto is ready to fire. You should see a spark at that time.
When you removed the fuel line did you see fuel flowing from the tank? Why did you remove the carburetor? What spring are you telling me is compressed?
Where did the fuel leak from?
I'm trying to help but I need you to be specific about what you have done and what the results were.
Tom
 

Mr D

New Member
May 24, 2010
26
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fresno ca
I had to remove the magneto cover and lightly sand the ground connector on the wire and where it attaches to.

My never been started motor finally had a spark. my problem was no ground. Ck yours yet?
 

BikeGuyver

Member
Jun 20, 2010
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Yes, that's what I thought. with the clutch "engaged" I cannot rotate the pedals. Maybe with Hulk strength turned on I can rotate it a few degrees.

I removed the carb to check the needle, I guess I could've just removed the air filter. So I was looking in the carb and gas just started leaking all over my hands. Was it a bad idea to turn the carb around looking at it?

The spring that is above the needle seems compressed. So I can't really move the throttle.

So, back to the original problem. I cannot pedal the bike. It takes superhuman strength to pedal it more than an inch so there is no way I can pedal enough to get a spark.
 

Stormsorter

Member
Jun 10, 2010
122
1
16
Jasper County Illinois
Pedaled, let go of the clutch, and I would just skid to a stop.
I might not have much experience but this seems more like an internal problem. Like the piston stuck in the cylinder somehow. Maybe one of the pins for the rings fell out and got jammed or some other foreign object in the cylinder. If you don't feel comfortable taking the head and cylinder off to find out, don't (I would check warranty since this will most likely void it). Since this seems to be a new engine I would contact your merchant for a replacement if the engine is truly seized in some way. I could be totally wrong though, so hopefully someone with more experience will confirm or deny my thoughts.

As for the spring in the throttle being compressed your probably just putting the slide in the wrong way. There should be a pin on one side and you have to line the groove in the slide up with that pin. For more info on carbs read Norms thread here Motorized Bicycle Carburetor install and rebuild
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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up north now
Yes, that's what I thought. with the clutch "engaged" I cannot rotate the pedals. Maybe with Hulk strength turned on I can rotate it a few degrees.

I removed the carb to check the needle, I guess I could've just removed the air filter. So I was looking in the carb and gas just started leaking all over my hands. Was it a bad idea to turn the carb around looking at it?

The spring that is above the needle seems compressed. So I can't really move the throttle.

So, back to the original problem. I cannot pedal the bike. It takes superhuman strength to pedal it more than an inch so there is no way I can pedal enough to get a spark.

Take the spark plug out.....then you will be able to pedal it. Hold the plug, plugged INTO the wire/cap assembly, firmly to the engine. Have a helper turn the pedals, and/or lift the bike slightly.

Do this with the clutch released, or "out".

Let us know what the net result is after you have done this.
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
252
63
up north now
BTW- do you have the slide in backwards? Do you have the carb assembled correctly?
Is the slide all the way down when you release the throttle, or is it partly lifted?
 

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
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San Diego, Kaliforgnia
When you are trying to start the engine, do you have the clutch released, lever not locked and all the way out, and then try to pedal from a dead stop?
If so then this is part of the problem.
These bikes are best started on pavement, not dirt. Dirt is possible, but the rear tire tends to skid easier.
The following is how I start difficult bikes, you can use it to test for your spark as well if you:
1. Remove the spark plug from the cylinder.
2. Keep it plugged into the spark plug cap coming from the CDI unit.
3. Lay the spark plug on it's side, on the top of the cylinder head fins, making sure the metal of the spark plug is touching the metal cylinder head,with the spark gap facing where you can see it as you ride.
4. Use tape, a bungee cord or whatever to hold the spark plug securely to the top of the cylinder head so it will not wiggle around and fall off. Just be sure you can see the spark gap when you are pedaling down the road.
From a dead stop:
You need to squeeze the clutch lever in, do not lock it in, just hold it squeezed in.
Start pedaling the bike up to a brisk speed, at least 7MPH, all the while holding the clutch squeezed in. Once up to speed, stand up on the pedals, and quickly sit down on the seat, this is to afford the rear tire a brief improvement in grip against the ground.
Keep pedaling the whole time, do not coast at all.
Time your releasing of the the clutch lever to engage the clutch at the precise moment your bottom hits the seat, (this may take practice) and do not release the clutch slowly. Release it quickly, letting it snap out to the extended position.
If the clutch is not slipping, the engine will spin and you should see the spark plug sparking.
If the spark plug were installed in the engine, and you have no carburetor issues, or electrical issues, the engine will start with a little choke applied with the choke lever on the carburetor. (Only choke a cold engine, hot engines need no choke)
Try this and please get back to us with the results. :)
 
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BikeGuyver

Member
Jun 20, 2010
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I might not have much experience but this seems more like an internal problem. Like the piston stuck in the cylinder somehow. Maybe one of the pins for the rings fell out and got jammed or some other foreign object in the cylinder. If you don't feel comfortable taking the head and cylinder off to find out, don't (I would check warranty since this will most likely void it). Since this seems to be a new engine I would contact your merchant for a replacement if the engine is truly seized in some way. I could be totally wrong though, so hopefully someone with more experience will confirm or deny my thoughts.

Thanks Stormsorter, sounds like you understand my problem. They guy I got it from isn't getting back to me, so I was hoping I could fix it on my own. I would feel comfortable lifting the head off, but that would involve buying more tools, which I really can't afford right now. Although maybe it would just be a new gasket and a good socket? I put oil in the cylinder hoping to unfreeze it but maybe I didn't put enough in. And yes the spark plug is not in the engine. So it sounds like I'm screwed.

Here's a pic of the throttle cable end, if it matters.
 

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BikeGuyver

Member
Jun 20, 2010
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Well, just got back from GearNut's experiment. Here's my strategy:

Chain is tight, no way it can get bunched up.
Go to the pavement.
Pull in clutch, pedal hard for 100 feet, sit down & release clutch suddenly.
Bike comes skidding to a stop while I keep pedaling.
Repeat 5 times.
No spark as far as I can see.. I would hear it too right? But it is broad daylight. Also, since my engine doesn't seem to be turning over, that would make the spark hard to get.
I fixed the throttle btw, I didn't have the notch going past the little bump in the carburettor.
I think my back wheel is starting to get out of round, with all the torque I'm applying.

The fallacy is: the engine will spin. The reality is: the engine is not spinning.
Thanks for all your help guys... Any other suggestions?
 

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2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
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Littleton, Colorado
It's beginning to sound like that engine is seized. If it locks the rear wheel with the plug out and you're sure the chain isn't locked up in the drive sprocket...you have a problem. With the spark plug out there is no compression and the only resistance you'll feel when pedaling is what little there is in the chain/sprockets and cross shaft in the motor. If this is a used bike, and I think I read that it is, this is probably the reason the seller isn't answering your calls. How many miles were you told was on that engine? Do you know any history on it at all? Fuel mix ratio used, what kind of oil? You might well be in over your head here as far as repairs go and it would be cheaper and easier to replace the engine. Sorry to say that but the evidence points to a bad engine.
Tom
 

BikeGuyver

Member
Jun 20, 2010
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Sacramento, CA
Yeah, if I can pedal fine with the clutch in, then that means the chain is not bunching. The motor isn't used, it's new. But the packaging it came in was pretty tore up (UPS fault, and bad packaging in the first place). The air intake was damaged (superficial), and a screw coming out of the engine was slightly bent, but I thought that was all the damage. Here's the site I got it from:

GadgetGeeks Online Store The one who dies with the most toys WINS

So... then what's the next step? Box it up, ship it back, hope for a refund and be out $60 shipping? Sounds like that is the best case scenario now :'(

*cries*
 

freewheeling frank

New Member
Mar 10, 2009
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ridgway colorado
ya i wasnt thinking,sorry.one other thing i saw on one of my engine,a grubeeis the clutch was actually painted stuck and i mean it was stuck hard. maybe check that out. sorry cant be of more help,frank