4G Troubles

trevpiee · Dec 11, 2011

So I just received the new 2011 4g w/ h 142f engine and am running into trouble installing the trans onto the engine.

The first problem was the key for the clutch pack did not fit.. I tried jamming into the slot but I ended up having to shave it down a bit to get it to fit.

Not a big deal but then when I went to install the 4g, I noticed screws were too long to completely tighten it to the engine. I don't know if you can really tell in this pic.

This is all the hardware that came with the 4g + engine

Moving along with my troubles, even with the 4g completely tight up against the engine, the large belt pulley is coming into contact with the clutch as seen in this pic.

Lastly, although it states in the manual that you need to add oil to the engine before installing the 4g, i did not realize that the new model would prevent you from removing the dipstick with the trans installed.

I haven't seen anyone else mention any of these problems. I have built up several bikes using last years 4g with the 142f engine, and did not come across any major problems... Am I missing something here... or just doing something completely wrong??

MotoMagz · Dec 11, 2011

Ok I believe you need to loosen the 4 bolts behind the large 100t pulley and then use a spanner/screw driver to rotate the cam.This will get it away from the oil plug and the clutch.If that doen't work you will have to rotate the entire cam to get it into the correct position.When you replace the 4 bolts you might want to switch to a allen bolt ..it is much easier to work with.Ya I think the cam is in wrong....

The_Aleman · Dec 13, 2011

Replace those gearbox mount screws, preferably with Allen-head, like MotoMagz said.
They should be 1/4-28.

Tad Bit Tipsy · Dec 13, 2011

Yea, not the best design in the world, eh? Like Motomagz says, you've got the whole large belt and pulley too close to the engine. spin it out the other way towards your rear wheel. Also you can trim down the plastic on the oil screw so its easier to remove.

Ooh also I see that you have the large 12T freewheel. Its a lot bulkier than the standard 10t non freewheel or even the 11T freewheel that originally came with the 4G, but its a lot better. The 11T was just a piece of crap!

scotto- · Dec 15, 2011

OK......I just helped my friend with the exact same new 4G set-up. He had the clutch on backwards and had the same issues.

Flip the clutch over (so the shoulder is facing outwards) and tap it down till it seats against the shaft shoulder and all but one of your problems will be gone.

The problem left and as suggested in previous post is to trim the plastic dipstick wing down. Or remove the tranny everytime you change your oil (pain in the u no).

dnut

Quenton Guenther · Dec 15, 2011

Careful about the 1/4 X 28 as the majority of the HS 142 motors us 6 MM X 1 threads in the crankcase. The majority of the HS 142 motors with the 15.8 mm shaft use a 1/4" X 28 bolt in the crankshaft, and the key way isn't 3/16", but metric 4.5 MM. The difference between 3/16" and 4.5 MM is .01" and can easily be removed from a 3/16" key.

Have fun,

The_Aleman · Dec 15, 2011

Quenton Guenther said:
Careful about the 1/4 X 28 as the majority of the HS 142 motors us 6 MM X 1 threads in the crankcase. The majority of the HS 142 motors with the 15.8 mm shaft use a 1/4" X 28 bolt in the crankshaft, and the key way isn't 3/16", but metric 4.5 MM. The difference between 3/16" and 4.5 MM is .01" and can easily be removed from a 3/16" key.

Have fun,

Every HS142F non-CC I've seen so far (3) uses 1/4-28 on the PTO's 4 bolt holes in addition to the crankshaft end bolt.
Just like a GXH50. Of course one must check the hole with either bolt to make sure. China is unpredictable!

We have been over this before, Quenton. M6 will thread a good ways in those 1/4-28 holes but will fatigue the threads quickly.
I've seen first-hand when happens when an EZM dealer threads M6s into a 1/4-28 hole. Not pretty.

Quenton Guenther · Dec 15, 2011

Correct, a 6 MM will thread into a 1/4" X 28, but the 1/4" X 28 won't thread into a 6 MM hole.

While you can't trust the Chinese motors to be consistant we ship HS motors daily and we check every motor for thread changes during drive assembly. We purchase our motors from several vendors, and are aware of the differences.

We just completed testing the HF 99 CC motor and comparing it to the 79 CC motor, was shocked to find 5/16 X 24 threads on the left side crankcase.

Like I said earlier, be careful.

Have fun,

trevpiee · Dec 19, 2011

Thanks for the responses.. I thought I mighta put it on backwards, but I thought it sat even further out with it on the other way... I'll try when I get home

Thanks

scotto- · Dec 19, 2011

Note this.....the 4 bolts that hold the drive to the motor are too long....they bottom out and need to be spaced using a washer or two on the bolts. You cannot snug the tranny to the engine without using washers on those 4 bolts, just so ya know.

dnut

Ibedayank · Dec 19, 2011

solution to to long of bolts....GRINDER

scotto- · Dec 20, 2011

Ibedayank said:
solution to to long of bolts....GRINDER

Yeah, or a hacksaw. Just be sure to dress the ends of the bolts after cutting them so you don't buger the threads in the engine side plate. Using washers is easy if you have the right size.

dnut

trevpiee · Dec 24, 2011

scotto- said:
OK......I just helped my friend with the exact same new 4G set-up. He had the clutch on backwards and had the same issues.

Flip the clutch over (so the shoulder is facing outwards) and tap it down till it seats against the shaft shoulder and all but one of your problems will be gone.

The problem left and as suggested in previous post is to trim the plastic dipstick wing down. Or remove the tranny everytime you change your oil (pain in the u no).

So I tried flipping the clutch again, and it definitely sits further out...

I looked over the install directions on grubeez site and it says to install the clutch with the 2 holes facing outboard, like I had originally.
Stage III V-FRAME MOUNT ENGINE KIT

When I tighten the trans down though, it bolts the large pulley very tight against the clutch... so tight that I can't even move it. I think I might have to find a way to space things more?

scotto- · Dec 26, 2011

trevpiee said:
So I tried flipping the clutch again, and it definitely sits further out...

I looked over the install directions on grubeez site and it says to install the clutch with the 2 holes facing outboard, like I had originally.
Stage III V-FRAME MOUNT ENGINE KIT

When I tighten the trans down though, it bolts the large pulley very tight against the clutch... so tight that I can't even move it. I think I might have to find a way to space things more?

Yes, looking at your original pics you had the clutch on correctly......don't know what the heck is up with your 4G but it was a simple fix for my friends and it works great now.

Just keep flipping and flopping as well as some spacers to get it to work, I'm sure it will fit somehow. Seems like the earlier versions of this 4G set-up were a lot less hassel, I thought simple was better? Sorry to add to the confusion here but we did get the same set-up to work eventually......keep trying and keep your cool.

dnut

thedude · Dec 26, 2011

I have this exact 4g trans. The bolts on mine were almost exactly 1/8 inch to long, hack saw and a file fixed that. I did not trim the bolt on the clutch bell, figuring better to long than too short, have had no issues with the lateral play of the housing. They should have supplied a spanning tool to adjust the trans gear that the belt sits on, if not loosen the bolts alot and use a screwdriver to lever the drive gear away from the clutch gear and tighten. For checking the oil, clip the cap into a nice V shape with some tin snips. Are you still figuring out how to seat the clutch pad? To help with that I would need to tear mine apart to remember which way mine went on. Also some preinstallation advise, to save belt life...check the transmission gears and using a sharp knife, razorblade if extremely careful, check for and cut off any leftover burs on the inside of the larger gear, mine had a bur on every single depression that would have sliced my belt.

BE-tech · Dec 27, 2011

Check out this thread: http://motorbicycling.com/f23/4g-t-belt-drive-installation-problems-17492-9.html. Post 88, pg. 9. Install the clutch the second way shown (with the small washer). Also, make sure that your large pulley isn't on backwards. They have different offsets on each side. You could also put a washer behind your large pulley to get it to pull away from your clutch bell slightly. Keep in mind will affect your pulley alignment. You may have to use something thinner to shim it out for the proper clearance. Pay special attention to the last picture. Install the clutch hardware in that order.

andrewflores17 · Jan 5, 2012

i had every single problem you had today and one more im going to have to somehow get my engine atleast a half inch to transmisson side for the chain to have a straight shot to sprocket only idea is to drill or grind my half inch over

why do you hate us so much 4g kits

BE-tech · Jan 6, 2012

andrewflores17

Double check and make sure your motor mount plate is not on backwards. The plate is offset to one side and is easily overlooked. The rear sprockets also have an offset, flipping it around could help. This may cause clearance issues with the rear tire depending on it's width.

scotto- · Jan 6, 2012

Yes, some good suggestions here and also be careful when mounting the plastic belt guard.....take care that the mounting screws aren't digging into the topside of the belt. It can happen if you don't pay attention to the placement of the cover, you can wear a groove in or shread the belt.....just so ya know.

dnut

BE-tech said:
andrewflores17

Double check and make sure your motor mount plate is not on backwards. The plate is offset to one side and is easily overlooked. The rear sprockets also have an offset, flipping it around could help. This may cause clearance issues with the rear tire depending on it's width.

andrewflores17 · Jan 6, 2012

http://motorbicycling.com/f23/4g-t-belt-drive-installation-problems-17492-10.html

the links were i posted a little more detail but would a output shaft for the 10th still work

the problem is its just to long i even grinded out a good half inch on the mount plate just to scoot the engine over just so but still hits the frame

i can slide the engine forward a little more but still the problem of the output shaft being to long kills me
:-||

i only need a half inch min inch ideal

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