Socal Motor Bicycle Racing @ Willow Springs May 30, 2015

I just read the last few pages, wow just wow

Have to mention:
I told you so- check early post Willow #1 posts - keep it fun for all riders and families, spectators-
fast and slow races etc. funniest bike, coolest bike, in between bike ???? and it will grow-
cater only to the go fast crowd and it will wither on the vine.
Why can't anyone other than DTM and K100 pull together a ride in Los Angeles???--

Welcome to "Brosville" LA style

shoulda, woulda, coulda ...to bad

Scotto-
I just set about outlining my involvement/dedication with this thang and "the business" electric and motorized in a very real way and got logged out due to my history being too long...
suffice it to say there are a few good ole boys involved but infact I have been far more deeply involved more than anyone you know of --sometime I will elaborate if interested when we are next at the same place/same time-- to write it is just too long.

Ask Sportsman Pat and Crazy Horse about our communication 7 years ago also Venice and BikeBerry owner Jack, CCC just did not pick up as well as Andy who I consider a friend -- both have their full time jobs.

Here in LA I hang and get my tools greasy with Ghettobike James and his son Eric who are dear friends- infact I was his sole supporter when he introduced one of his many devices and many more about to surface!!!! CNC is on the way -his flat high compression head
He IS the gas tank master/maestro but does not want to be bothered with them much these days-- bigger better plans and interests in this arena.

and DTM and my friends down 48th Avenue-just today Snow riding his/Primo's- CCC's iceman's preddy 212 which has been worked on twice and more to be done by engine master Daryl who runs 96 mph!

the white guys just do not turn out for a ride despite my numerous efforts!!!

Your San Diego group seems to have dwindled to zip??? why too fast???

Oh yeah, I spend half my year at my home in Antwerp , Belgium the past 8 years.

WANNA RACE???

There isn't really any point in racing unless you collect data. Data and statistics are beneficial to practically everyone involved. For the racers, they will know if their efforts showed in the lap times. For builders, they will get feedback on parts and setup changes. For the organizers, one race with full stats will give all the info needed for setting up racing classes. It will no longer be based on gut feeling.

For me, racing is more about finding what I'm doing right or wrong. Stats are great for this. Without stats, the fastest guys and the slowest guys will pretty much not get a chance to improve their skills based on any real data. That's the thing about it, is it's so easy to setup a system like this. You can easily do a transponder system like people in all sorts of racing have been doing for decades. A computer collects all the data automatically and stores it in a database. Then you get a person like me to analyze the data and present it in ways that are easy to understand (charts, etc).

Each racer inputs a standardized set of data for his or her entry. The more the better. Bike type, hp, engine/carb/exhaust/ gear ratio, tires, wheels/rim type, rider weight, rider experience, everything.

After just ONE race, maybe only one or two heats, with a big enough population of riders say 15+, certain trends would become apparent. You might find that guys running a certain gear ratio tend to do better. Or belt drive vs chain users have a significant result. Enter statistical hypothesis testing. Be able to make statements such as "I can say with 95% certainty that guys running aluminum rims over steel ones makes a significant change in results". Scale/standardize your data by taking average population HP and scaling each entry to make comparisons easier. A computer does this in an instant.

Statistics make the smallest details and changes ten times more exciting. But if you guys wanna travel many miles just to see who's the fastest and have fun.... Well it sounds kind of like a waste of time. You don't have to travel farther than the local abandoned building parking lot to do that, and it's free as can be.

beginner01 said:

That's the thing about it, is it's so easy to setup a system like this.

You can easily do a transponder system like people in all sorts of racing have been doing for decades.
A computer collects all the data automatically and stores it in a database. Then you get a person like me to analyze the data and present it in ways that are easy to understand (charts, etc). .

Click to expand...

Transponder systems are EA$Y.

Transponders cost $200 to $300 each and every racer needs their own transponder, aside from the software and dedicated laptop.

Costs about $800 for the day to rent IF the system is not being used that day
plus you are on the hook for any damaged or "lost" transponders at $300 each.

I am on very friendly terms with Young Lee who runs M1GP which uses a Mylaps system.
M1GP's $120 a year membership fee + $65 race fee + $25 2nd/3rd race class fee + $10 gate fee make their purchase of Mylaps possible, and his racers don't mind paying $300 for their own transponder or renting for $20 a race.

I have done extensive research into finding an affordable scoring system over
the last 4 years and 15 races........you will be a hero if you can come up with
something that works.

PS: You are not the first to suggest this.

There is a manual lap timer for about $50 that you have to remember to hit every lap
and a beacon individual lap timer for $45? to track your own lap times that sadly could not be used to score a race because of it's flawed design.

Thank you for your $5,000++ donation to buy a system like Mylaps for SMBR.

.........................

beginner01 said:

But if you guys wanna travel many miles just to see who's the fastest and have fun.... Well it sounds kind of like a waste of time. You don't have to travel farther than the local abandoned building parking lot to do that, and it's free as can be.

Click to expand...

I've done the travel many times and for me it wasn't a waste of time hanging out, seeing cool bikes and racing on a close course with an EMT.
Parking lots tend to be boring and usually the bragging rights are self proclaimed.

Only 2 months to the next Socal Motor Bicycle Racing extravaganza.

Fri Oct 16th track practice and fun riding from 9am to dark for only $20
There will be a racer clinic later in the day.

Sat Oct 17th is race day with track practice starting at 7am to 9:15am

Riders meeting 9:30 am then 6 lap heats starting at 10:15 am

MotorBicycleRacing said:

Transponder systems are EA$Y.

Transponders cost $200 to $300 each and every racer needs their own transponder, aside from the software and dedicated laptop.

Costs about $800 for the day to rent IF the system is not being used that day
plus you are on the hook for any damaged or "lost" transponders at $300 each.

I am on very friendly terms with Young Lee who runs M1GP which uses a Mylaps system.
M1GP's $120 a year membership fee + $65 race fee + $25 2nd/3rd race class fee + $10 gate fee make their purchase of Mylaps possible, and his racers don't mind paying $300 for their own transponder or renting for $20 a race.

I have done extensive research into finding an affordable scoring system over
the last 4 years and 15 races........you will be a hero if you can come up with
something that works.

PS: You are not the first to suggest this.

There is a manual lap timer for about $50 that you have to remember to hit every lap
and a beacon individual lap timer for $45? to track your own lap times that sadly could not be used to score a race because of it's flawed design.

Thank you for your $5,000++ donation to buy a system like Mylaps for SMBR.

Click to expand...

Excuses...

OK, $800, so.... What's the problem? so make it $50 a day. What's it cost now $20 per day? Take about 30 persons $30 extra to make it happen.

And slow down with the 5k here. Nobody said you need to buy a Ferrari just to drive to work. You don't need the best of the best system. It just needs to barely work. What about those rc car transponders? Entire systems for under $500. As cheap insurance if it DOESNT work or misses a count, you can put a video camera in a decent location and time people by video frames and bike number. A pita but it's cheap.

I mean, you're making this out like it's all super high performance, we need all top notch equipment... How much does the average MB at grange cost? $1200? People have as much in rc cars. No reason we need to pay ten times more for timing.

With hobbyist riders and builders, the winner is the guy who made the biggest improvement from beginning to end of event. Just seeing the NUMBERS that show that whatever you did was an improvement is huge. It's personal achievement that brings the greatest satisfaction in practically anything. What better way than with stats? What better value than with stats?

And yeah.. The thing is.. I'm 450 miles away. I don't have a car. I would road trip down on my bike if I could get these kind of stats. That is why I started reading this thread, cause I want to see what kind of stats are posted. But the no stats thing killed it for me. Ya make it a full package and the people would come. I had no problem driving 150 miles for a full stat rallycross nearby. My first lap was 75s, my best 67s and the fastest guys with turbos and rally tires were in the 57-62s section. That's what I wanna see.

beginner01 said:

And slow down with the 5k here.

Nobody said you need to buy a Ferrari just to drive to work. You don't need the best of the best system. It just needs to barely work.

Click to expand...

$5,500 which includes 40 transponders now as a special deal.

http://www.mylaps.com/en/timing-systems/mylaps-trackside/1777

That's what lap timing systems cost.

Seeing that you are an expert on timing systems why don't you find
a system for $500 or even $2000 that will work for 20 bikes/ gopeds
crossing the finish line of a 12 lap race at 45 mph.

You will be a hero and I will give you free races for life.

beginner01 said:

What about those rc car transponders? Entire systems for under $500.

Click to expand...

What about them?
I am told that they won't work for us.
RC car transponders work at a recommended 2" off the ground.

Please post a link or phone # to where you can buy a $500 system
that will work with our motorized bikes.
thanks

Here you go. Transponders cheap as can be for $2 at most with rfid tags. This isn't my job either. Seems like you don't care about timing, or you'd be renting a system for the $800 tag like you posted above. I still don't see what's wrong with charging extra for timing. People regularly pay $100 to run 15 laps in autocross, and if I was driving down there with my bike in tow you can be sure my gas and other expenses would far outnumber a race expense; damn straight.

http://www.motosponder.com

Assuming a turnout of 30 people, charging $50 for racers plus the $10 gate fee would pay for your system in two races. You could keep charging that money because you'd still bring the value. After a few more races with the money left over you could in invest in a mylaps system. After a total of 2, then four more- six races. I would GLADLY pay $60 for a race day, but the most I'll pay for a get together day is $18.60; the price of a 12-pack of SN Torpedos.

Bring the value and I, along with countless others looking for something of real value, will come. A race without lap timing provides no more value than a parking lot get-together... Where the EMTs are only a phone call and a few miles away at any time.

But of course if you want to continue with the price of a new mylaps and why it CAN'T be done... cry me a river.

That link to the cheap transponder is only for the RFID tags, which are cheap. The system itself, which is required to capture and record the data is $3,695 for a 4 antenna system.

I'm not saying thats the one to use or whatever...but saying "hey look how cheap it is" without realizing all the parts required doesnt help the conversation. I'm sure there are plenty of other options as well.

I dont understand all the people that complain and give ideas on what to do. I'll keep going to the races. If people post the winners on some website, great. If there is a dedicated website for SoCal racing, even better! I'm not going to stop though because this isnt NASCAR and we dont get TV coverage for our events.

I'll see the dedicated racers in October. Shine up that 5th place trophy for me.

This was Apollo Moto's first time at the races, and what a great time it was...

If not a bit windy.

The Video titles are not helping me very much, and I really don't remember who was running in witch classes so this is basically just a list of all the videos I could find from the weekend.


So, without further ado...

Apollo Moto Racing brings the Races to you!

Beginner China Girl Heat ?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSdp3piLTGE

Novice/ Expert China Girl Final ?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URjkA-8Cs_Y

Novice/ Expert China Girl Final ?? (cam on a different bike) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpbUpsHUTRk

Midrange Heat ?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrb58WGXIzE

Midrange Heat ?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LdAvqKfqqQ

Midrange Final ?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bwUDz_oZU


Stay tuned for more 'from the Races!





Sean Davis
Apollo Moto Racing
https://www.facebook.com/ApolloMotoRacing/