Adjustable ignition timing

hey guys
sorry to just bust in with this question, but, how do i know if my timing needs to be adjusted? I just put the pirate cycles high compressrion head on my grubee skyhawk and it is now running ABSOLUTELY smooth with NO four-stroking, or hesitataion uphill, downhill or flat.

Does this mean this is as good as it gets, or can a timing adjustment squeeze a little more power out of it?
thanks.

blckwlfny1 said:

hey guys
sorry to just bust in with this question, but, how do i know if my timing needs to be adjusted? I just put the pirate cycles high compressrion head on my grubee skyhawk and it is now running ABSOLUTELY smooth with NO four-stroking, or hesitataion uphill, downhill or flat.

Does this mean this is as good as it gets, or can a timing adjustment squeeze a little more power out of it?
thanks.

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Got three old phrases here.

Curiosity killed the cat.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

In order to time one of these relies on many things to grasp general principles to first do a lot of reading on. You said yours was running ABSOLUTELY smooth! I would go with the ''KISS'' principle at this point. Watch your plug color.

Jaguar,...ok, I kind've lost track of the mods you did. If I wanted to reproduce what you did with the digital ignition. What would I have to do exactly? Do I HAVE to adjust the timing?
Thanks

do you think the high compression head would affect the timing?

would the timing be different because yours is a 48cc and mine is a 67cc?

I'm waiting for Jim to release this part!!!

Creative Engineering said:

Piston Bikes sent me 50 magnets to be modified...They will have them in-stock soon!

Jim

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Great Ill be first in line.

Why couldn't you just file the key way wider in the rotor and use something like shim stock or other metal to take up the slack before bolting it down?

GREAT! piston bikes, got it, put me down for 2.
BBB

Waiting for them to be ready, any ideas as to when the custom magnets will be available?

Jim @ creativeengineering,
I know you don't like to deal directly with customers and like to sell via 3rd party vendors. Any chance you can do an exchange program for us? We mail your our magnet, you modify it for a fee and send it back to us?

If so, please put me in line for 2 magnets.

Thanks,
Drew

So what your saying is take the bolt off, take out the key way and advance it a little and tighten it back up and test it. Do you know the torque setting on that bolt would be? And you said it would hold up. If this works great maybe you should make it available that you could offer at a reasonable fee that if you send the magnet magnedle or what ever its called and you could machine it to a spec and return it that would be a nice service to offer others if you knew it would increase power on low and top end wow that sounds great. sign me up Thanks

How can I get the magnet out?

I also found a neat trick, not to change the subject, on the carb I found a tip on tuning it. It is tuned on the needle valve. You unscrew the top of the carb where the cable goes. Then you look at the throttle part that goes up and down there is a needle valve with several notches, It leans or riches the carb or fuel. You carefully use good pliers and take off the lock ring and move it. My China eng runs best at lean. In other words less fuel or the needle is all the way down.
Hope this helps you if you did not know this.

greentek said:

I also found a neat trick, not to change the subject, on the carb I found a tip on tuning it. It is tuned on the needle valve. You unscrew the top of the carb where the cable goes. Then you look at the throttle part that goes up and down there is a needle valve with several notches, It leans or riches the carb or fuel. You carefully use good pliers and take off the lock ring and move it. My China eng runs best at lean. In other words less fuel or the needle is all the way down.
Hope this helps you if you did not know this.

Click to expand...

That was off topic.

But how can I release the magnet?

you mean take it off? remove nut and pull on magnet. the key might bind up and keep it from coming off i usually find a micro phillps head screwdriver and stick it in slot to hold pressure on key while i pull the magnet. I believe it was 2door he says there a puller you can use you would have to ask him.. hey what happened to the creator of this thread?

I just ran into this thread today and read through most of it, If I missed something and am re asking a question sorry. All of my timing experiance is with my old VW bus, throught the light on it and twist the distributor to the desired spot and tighten it down, easy and simple, but makes such a difference in performance. (I have an old timing light in my travel tool box for the bus). So I understand how this discussion of timing could vastly improve our little engines. My thought was why all the finagling with the key way and magnet, why not focus on the coil end of it.

Jim starts off the discussion by saying there is no room in the case for a backing plate for an adjustable coil, I respect Jim's opinion, but has any else tried to overcome that problem? It seems like for a bolt on upgrade that might be the simplest avenue to pursue, maybe even a modified coil that would allow space for a backing plate, because then you could adjust timing with the bike running and tighten it down when it is dialed in. Also from a bolt on after market part standpoint, if you included a new cover you could in corporate the Degree wheel with the adjustment point and have realy slick item, I dare say if done right it would be on the level of expansion chamber exhaust for "must have" performance upgrades.

I wont dispute that the stock timing dampens performance, or that advancing the timing will improve it. I am actually not mechanically inclined enough to support or dispute this theory. I will say this: Many people think that the people that build these engines must be mechanically inept, because there are so many things about these engines that are backward of what we would expect in a performance-driven market. But I say this: these engines are designed to do exactly what they do. In my very limited understanding of this subject, I would propose that the timing retardation probably has to do with two things. One is speed. are they purposely trying to limit how fast you can go, just for the sake of limiting you? I doubt it. Most countries have laws on how fast bikes can travel, and what kind of power they can have driving them. not to mention the speed limits. In america, bikes are not allowed on highways. in most residential areas, the speed limit is 35 or less. the purpose of these engines is that they are legal almost everywhere for the most part because they dont break the speed limit. even if the engine isnt legal in your area per se, you probably wont get pulled over because you arent breaking the speed limit. here in pa, any motor assisted vehicle must be registered. I ride illegally. I never get pulled over and I pass cops all the time. Im not breaking the speed limit, so they dont mess with me. also I ride in the shoulder, so im not even interrupting traffic. another reason for the retarded timing probably has to do with mileage. a big attraction with these engines is that they get ridiculous mileage. bet if you change the timing, you wont get the same mileage. again i say, these engines were designed and engineered to do exactly what they do. the people that design and make them arent inept, they just dont make them to do what you want them to do. mods are cool, but a stock setup takes less work, less maintenance, less time, less energy, less money, and can probably be expected to live to its full life expectancy, whatever that might be. personally, i dont want to break the speed limit or get less mileage.

I could be wrong about speed and mileage, but a stock setup is still easier to maintain.

I hear you!
So this is what i did?
I took the timing cover off, got a thin marker and marked a thin line on the magnet and the shaft screw then I got a cresent wrench on the magnet and a closed wrench on the bolt and unscrewed the bolt. Then I moved the magnet back and forth till it came off. Then I put the small keyway in a ziplock bag so I wont lose it. Then I put on the magnet and moved it just ahead a little bit from where the mark was. Remember I marked it so I know where it was lined up. So my result was it sounded different like it was off timing, then I losened it and advanced it a little more and it still sounded off. I did see a change. But I put it back how it was. Maybe I will mess with it another day when I have more time. So my result was it does change the acceleration, I just need to find the best position possible through testing, then mark it with a thin different color marker at the best possible position. But my personnal thought on these china engines are that they seem to not have too much power coming out of them, in other words I think that they are governed somehow through the out take or intake or both. And if you do the research you will find out what makes them faster and more powerful. Also I use locktight on the cover screws so I wont lose them on the road.
Do your test and if it works please post pictures of the before and after markings on the shaft and maybe a video on how it sounds, maybe even a test drive up the road to show the power before and after, To show the difference.
Thanx