Semi-Synthetic oil: Safe for break-in?..

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noobtard

noobtard

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Okay so, It's a little bit late to be asking this...(almost done with my 2nd gallon. . .)
but, I'm being told my engine will never break in using this stuff.

I'm using Lucas semi-synthetic.. I asked in chat right before getting my first gallon..
semi-synthetic was what I was suggested to get...

am I killing my engine? Probably up to 150ish miles so far..



*EDIT* I'm now OFFICIALLY a "SEMI-SYNTHETIC/SYNTHETIC = Baddd for Break-In" Club member.(see page 4...)
 
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matt167

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likely, it won't.... belive it or not, a new engine must actully wear out to some degree to be broke in.. really what that consists of is seating the rings in.. with synthetics, it is so slippery that the rings won't wear and seat in
 
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stv1jzgte

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Cabinfever1977 said:
yeah now it wont be as fast or run as strong as a properly broken in motor.
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please explain? I guess thats me also. But mine dynoed with more power and is faster than what the factory
says. I must be wrong.
Seriously when you get it up to opperating temps over and over again those rings will seat.
what fuel/oil ratio are you using, how long have you been riding it each time, have you been keeping a load on the motor without hitting top rpm.
The big question, how does it go???
 
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noobtard

noobtard

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^
if those questions were at me, I've been running the crap out of it... usually just wot bursts at the tops of hills then coasting down.. but I've climbed hills I didn't think possible...

still 16:1,.. hours, still rides pretty rough.. think it's the chain flapping around mostly...
it's purrs at idle now... almost silent... almost done my 2nd gallon.. guess I'll get some reg. 2-stroke for the next gallon.. after that probably 32:1 semi-synth...

or not?
 
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stv1jzgte

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noobtard said:
^
if those questions were at me, I've been running the crap out of it... usually just wot bursts at the tops of hills then coasting down.. but I've climbed hills I didn't think possible...

still 16:1,.. hours, still rides pretty rough.. think it's the chain flapping around mostly...
it's purrs at idle now... almost silent... almost done my 2nd gallon.. guess I'll get some reg. 2-stroke for the next gallon.. after that probably 32:1 semi-synth...

or not?
Click to expand...
She is broken in im sure but try not to coast down hills in gear as you will be starving the engine of fuel and oil as it will only supply enough for idle while the engine is turning over at a faster rate.
What spark plug are you useing, if std toss it in the bin along with the lead.
 
Pablo

Pablo

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noobtard said:
Okay so, It's a little bit late to be asking this...(almost done with my 2nd gallon. . .)
but, I'm being told my engine will never break in using this stuff.

I'm using Lucas semi-synthetic.. I asked in chat right before getting my first gallon..
semi-synthetic was what I was suggested to get...

am I killing my engine? Probably up to 150ish miles so far..
Click to expand...
You will be perfectly fine. Lots of myths in this thread.
 
Pablo

Pablo

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noobtard said:
^
if those questions were at me, I've been running the crap out of it... usually just wot bursts at the tops of hills then coasting down.. but I've climbed hills I didn't think possible...

still 16:1,.. hours, still rides pretty rough.. think it's the chain flapping around mostly...
it's purrs at idle now... almost silent... almost done my 2nd gallon.. guess I'll get some reg. 2-stroke for the next gallon.. after that probably 32:1 semi-synth...

or not?
Click to expand...
Do try 32:1, but likely your problem is not base oil type related. What else have you done to the engine? What does the plug look like after a hot hard ride?
 
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matt167

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Pablo said:
No offense, but that's a load of horse ****. The apserites will be knocked of regardless of the base oil. I've lost count of how many engines I've broken in with synthetic oil and they run just great.
Click to expand...

that may be true.. possible that the rings seated slowly and seated better and truer from being over time, maby with the chromed bore, it's good for them... truthfully I come from a 4 stroke world.. mainly older flat tappet cam engines from the 50's and 60's.. and not only does it not seat the rings in correctly, it can wipe the new cam lobes out because it is too slippery. weird how it is too slippery, hard to explain exactly what happens but it happens
 
Pablo

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matt167 said:
that may be true.. possible that the rings seated slowly and seated better and truer from being over time, maby with the chromed bore, it's good for them... truthfully I come from a 4 stroke world.. mainly older flat tappet cam engines from the 50's and 60's.. and not only does it not seat the rings in correctly, it can wipe the new cam lobes out because it is too slippery. weird how it is too slippery, hard to explain exactly what happens but it happens
Click to expand...
Cam lobes don't wipe because an oil is "too slippery". That's tall tale material. Cam lobes most often - probably in 90% of "cam failures" - fail due to poor cam metallurgy, not the base oil of any given lubricant. (And the remainder due to inadequate oil supply to the cam)
 
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matt167

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Pablo said:
Cam lobes don't wipe because an oil is "too slippery". That's tall tale material. Cam lobes most often - probably in 90% of "cam failures" - fail due to poor cam metallurgy, not the base oil of any given lubricant. (And the remainder due to inadequate oil supply to the cam)
Click to expand...

Cam break in has everything to do oil quality/ contents... it's become a very large problem in the hotrod world. cam faliures have been gone up since the goverment mandated drop in ZDDP when oils switched from API SL to API SM..
also cam grinders won't warranty cams broke in on synthetic, or didn't have a ZDDP addative in the oil at time of break in.. and that's from high quality cam grinders like Isky, Comp, and Clay Smith
 
Pablo

Pablo

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This too is a bandaid. Cam companies don't have tribologists on staff and often base decisions on "beliefs" not science. It's true that an oil lacking AW additives could cause problems, but base oil is not related to this.

It's grown to mythic preportions in the hot rod world.
 
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matt167

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Right, oil lacking Zinc will be harder on a camshaft. it's no band-aid as all oils made prior to a couple years ago ( SL rating and b4 ) had enough zinc.. many cam companies also sell there own break in addative/ oil suppliment.. and to take advantage of the GMPP 50k mile warranty on the 350 replacement motors, you need to at least break it in with a bottle of GM E.O.S ( Engine Oil Suppliment, now changed name tho )... with decent engine rebuilds costing $1,000 or better, doing everything except machining yourself ( with my 200 I6 turbo engine, I was at $1,600 in the shortblock, $6k total ).. it's too costly to take chances.. cams might not be 'that' expensive but after you put togther a nice motor, it's a headache to go back and change it cause it went flat
 
Pablo

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The main explanation for the cams that failed with high ZDDP oil is poor metallurgy. Mostly Crane. But my main point is that synthetic oil did not cause the problem.

It's interesting that many brand new performance cars with fairly high cam pressure (points) do just fine on API SM oil. SAE studies have shown the ZDDP can be as low as 400-500 ppm and provide adequate protection. While I agree hiking ZDDP way up will help prevent problems with some cams - with proper design, materials and heat treatment, this should not be necessary and is indeed a band-aid.
 
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matt167

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new cars have roller cams and the Zddp is not nessasary in them.... in any case, many ring manufactures warn that synthetic oil will not break them in properly, and any warranty is void by doing so
 
Cabinfever1977

Cabinfever1977

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for breaking in your engine its your choice if you want to use regular or systhetic oil.
most of the manuals say to use regular 2-stroke oil for breakin and a couple say to use sythetic.
 
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Pablo

Pablo

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There are a LOT of engines that come from the factory filled with synthetic oil now days. Guess what? They break in just fine. I've been messing with and rebuilding engines for almost 40 years. A lot of them with synthetic. Broke in just fine. No glazed cylinders.

Use the oil that makes you happy!!
 
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matt167

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yea, that site is just one guys opinion, it's not the golden truth because it's on the internet..


personally, I run quality conventional oil with all my engines, and run ZDDP addatives in everything without a roller cam, even my lawn mowers get STP blue ( I use better stuff for the cars ).... main thing is break in, on a car anyway. rev it to 2,500 with no load for 30 mins. that's what cuts the ring to the exact shape of the cylinder and really breaks it in.... tho it's main purpose is for cam break in, to get the oil to it, and get it good and hot.. there are reports of engines not breaking in on synthetic, but I guess just like anything, it could be somthing else and blamed on the oil.. crosshatch finish, ring tension/ gap could all attribute to an improper breakin


also, today's engines use low tension rings, which really don't require being broke in like nornal rings.. which can attribute to newer cars break-in's.. tho I don't rebuild engines newer than the 70's, deal with mostly old school HP.
 
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