Morini runs!!! But.......

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cory151

cory151

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Oct 19, 2010
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Need some quick info, finally got my S6s built and ready to ride, fires up nicely but the clutch hardly engages even at WOT? I noticed there is an allen headed screw that says something like "clutch trim"?

How can I make this grab more? I didn't change any oil the engine is as received from the factory (minus the red vent plug), I was planning on eventually going to the 80w everyone was talking about but figured Id at least break her in as is.


Heres a vid to show completion, Ive still got to finish tigging up my all aluminum gas tank.

YouTube - ‪Morini1st Fire‬‏
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Congratulations Man! The bikes looks Kewl! (^)(^)

That looks like a pretty tall gear? Might wanna try taking one or more of the small shims out?

Read this link. http://motorbicycling.com/f47/morini-clutch-repair-video-20786.html Itchybird has a nice wright up here.
I run my Morini with around a 7000 rpm clutch stall my self. This gets me max power on any of my runs . The motor revs to way higher over a run of the mill 6000 rpm Chinese Happy Time. I cannot cruise slower than 12 mph even then that is boarder line on rough terrain or a hill but any speed on up mine will stay absolutely steady with cruise control. ''I got's a sticky throttle'' This has been my experience with my BoXXer set for street city use. Morini Franco USA

If I am set to cruise say at 20 mph and I floor the throttle the clutch will slip a bit till full speed throttle is reached. If I revved it just a bit to 35 mph it slips just a bit then simply holds steady.

The clutch you got is fully customizable for where you want your stall and driving habits at. Just remember full H.P. is is better at the motors power band. You can put it where ever you want it. I learned a lot about these motors when I finally drove around with a tachometer.

From here: Third: How the bike is presently geared. You have to treat gearing and clutch set up independently. Example: If you were to make a rear sprocket change to increase top end speed, (Less teeth on rear sprocket) then you loose some bottom end power. Now with the clutch set up you can change your power curve to compensate.

Martin & Slater :: Clutch Information

With these clutches in a wet oil bath they will take a ton of abuse. Your stock 3 shoe clutch is heavy duty as all get go! They are way better than the two shoe clutch famous for breaking. This 3 shoe clutch is rated for 15 H.P. and can take the heat!

''Don't Forget The Lock Tight''
 
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cory151

cory151

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Oct 19, 2010
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Goat Herder said:
Congratulations Man! The bikes looks Kewl! (^)(^)

That looks like a pretty tall gear? Might wanna try taking one or more of the small shims out?

Read this link. http://motorbicycling.com/f47/morini-clutch-repair-video-20786.html Itchybird has a nice wright up here.
I run my Morini with around a 7000 rpm clutch stall my self. This gets me max power on any of my runs . The motor revs to way higher over a run of the mill 6000 rpm Chinese Happy Time. I cannot cruise slower than 12 mph even then that is boarder line on rough terrain or a hill but any speed on up mine will stay absolutely steady with cruise control. ''I got's a sticky throttle'' This has been my experience with my BoXXer set for street city use. Morini Franco USA

If I am set to cruise say at 20 mph and I floor the throttle the clutch will slip a bit till full speed throttle is reached. If I revved it just a bit to 35 mph it slips just a bit then simply holds steady.

The clutch you got is fully customizable for where you want your stall and driving habits at. Just remember full H.P. is is better at the motors power band. You can put it where ever you want it. I learned a lot about these motors when I finally drove around with a tachometer.

From here: Third: How the bike is presently geared. You have to treat gearing and clutch set up independently. Example: If you were to make a rear sprocket change to increase top end speed, (Less teeth on rear sprocket) then you loose some bottom end power. Now with the clutch set up you can change your power curve to compensate.

Martin & Slater :: Clutch Information

With these clutches in a wet oil bath they will take a ton of abuse. Your stock 3 shoe clutch is heavy duty as all get go! They are way better than the two shoe clutch famous for breaking. This 3 shoe clutch is rated for 15 H.P. and can take the heat!

''Don't Forget The Lock Tight''
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, did yours feel like it wasn't pulling the bike hardly at all in the beginning? Shucks looks like im gonna need some special tools and a puller to remedy this issue. So much for riding it today I guess. Anybody got a link to source these Morini clutch tools?
 
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Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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cory151 said:
Alright, so I should take out some of the washers? That will cause the clutch to grab more if I understand the video.
Click to expand...
Yup.. you can drop the RPMs by 7to 800 by just removing the .005 shim. ''flat non beveled washers in the stack'' You should have Two .oo5 and one .010 which should set the stall at the desired RPM.
 
cory151

cory151

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Goat Herder said:
Yup.. you can drop the RPMs by 7to 800 by just removing the .005 shim. ''flat non beveled washers in the stack'' You should have Two .oo5 and one .010 which should set the stall at the desired RPM.
Click to expand...
Ok so dont remove any of the beveled washers just the flat one and itll drop my RPMs by 7-8 I will have to try that after I get some oil.

Its weird because the clutch will just barely move the bike at WOT, but if I blip quickly to say 1/2 throttle I can feel the clutch try and grab. If I god beyond 1/2 throttle it simple feels like the clutch has disengaged??????

I wonder if this could have anything to do with my home made staniless steel exhaust?

 
Mike B

Mike B

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Yup.

These motors depend on a properly designed and executed expansion chamber to deliver the HP at a really high RPM.

That ain't it.
 
cory151

cory151

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Welp show me the inside of one with something for size reference and I'll burn one out of metal.

Mike B said:
Yup.

These motors depend on a properly designed and executed expansion chamber to deliver the HP at a really high RPM.

That ain't it.
Click to expand...
 
Mike B

Mike B

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Not me, I dunno. I know that ain't it though.

The motor is supposed to come with plans...

Someone here will show you the way.

Not me though, I'm scared of them - :)
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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Sorry not to be specific but there is a ton of reading here! cone layout - Google Search
And yes Morini does provide specs for a proper resonance chamber.

The three clutch bolts should be torqued to about 8 foot pounds. The crank shaft nut I do about 20 and the kick start re-tightens the nut every time you start the bike so to speak.. You may want to invest in something like a piston stop tool to hold the crank still. Note remember the threads are backwards righty loosy lefty tighty on the clutch crank nut. The 3 clutch bolts are righty tighty lefty loosy ;)
Morini Franco USA

If you are very care-full you can get a screw driver somewhere through the clutch bell and another perhaps at the gears to hold the crank still. Danger pay attention! You can actually brake something. If you put the screw driver wrong at the bell you stand a chance of busting one of the clutch pad backings off!

I cheated last time I examined mine I just buzed mine off with a 3/8's impact gun don't have ta hold any thing still then . Takes that crank nut off nicly! :)
 
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cory151

cory151

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Oct 19, 2010
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Goat Herder said:
Sorry not to be specific but there is a ton of reading here! cone layout - Google Search
And yes Morini does provide specs for a proper resonance chamber.

The three clutch bolts should be torqued to about 8 foot pounds. The crank shaft nut I do about 20 and the kick start re-tightens the nut every time you start the bike so to speak.. You may want to invest in something like a piston stop tool to hold the crank still. Note remember the threads are backwards righty loosy lefty tighty on the clutch crank nut. The 3 clutch bolts are righty tighty lefty loosy ;)
Morini Franco USA

If you are very care-full you can get a screw driver somewhere through the clutch bell and another perhaps at the gears to hold the crank still. Danger pay attention! You can actually brake something. If you put the screw driver wrong at the bell you stand a chance of busting one of the clutch pad backings off!

I cheated last time I examined mine I just buzed mine off with a 3/8's impact gun don't have ta hold any thing still then . Takes that crank nut off nicly! :)
Click to expand...


Ok, ordered the puller, piston stop and nut from the link goatherder provided. Im wondering now though if its the clutch or my exhaust, I have a hard time believing its the exhaust especially since it will rev to full throttle like there is zero load on it even without an expansion chamber this motor should move the bike at least, as fast a china would. None of my chinas ever had expansion chambers.

Lastly, anybody know why there is an allen head screw that says "trim clutch" on the clutch casing?

Thanks
 
I

itchybird

Member
Nov 4, 2009
316
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Cory,

The 'clutch trim' does not apply to the S6S, you should have the three shoe clutch. Everyone has the same initial problem, WOT might as well stand for SIT, as the bike will sit there with you thinking you did something wrong.

If you look at the link that goat posted, it will take you thru the clutch tuning I did, and I can putter my bike around as slow as I please. If you go with the setup I used, I can guarantee your bike will behave as it is supposed to.

As for ultimate clutch tuning... gear ratio, personal preference (ie do you want a cruiser or racer), weight, etc all play into the final setting. I ride a lot thru the neighborhood, so I need a bike with some manners -can't go running around at WOT with a super loud pipe and still be cool with the neighbors.

I run a 45 tooth rear which is good for cruising but is a bit tall for ultimate performance. If you want rocket ship acceration, you need to be 52T or more, but acceration comes at the expense of top speed. Its all a matter of tradeoffs. We've always geared for the open road and Pat went down to the recent races they got whooped because the bikes were geared too tall. Pat is now working on some new custom sprockets for our drum hubs that should fix that in a hurry.

There are lots of folks that can help you here.

Rich

ps the S6S has a splined shaft, no puller required. Read the clutch sticky if its still there.
 
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Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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itchybird said:
Cory,

The 'clutch trim' does not apply to the S6S, you should have the three shoe clutch. Everyone has the same initial problem, WOT might as well stand for SIT, as the bike will sit there with you thinking you did something wrong.

If you look at the link that goat posted, it will take you thru the clutch tuning I did, and I can putter my bike around as slow as I please. If you go with the setup I used, I can guarantee your bike will behave as it is supposed to.

As for ultimate clutch tuning... gear ratio, personal preference (ie do you want a cruiser or racer), weight, etc all play into the final setting. I ride a lot thru the neighborhood, so I need a bike with some manners -can't go running around at WOT with a super loud pipe and still be cool with the neighbors.

I run a 45 tooth rear which is good for cruising but is a bit tall for ultimate performance. If you want rocket ship acceration, you need to be 52T or more, but acceration comes at the expense of top speed. Its all a matter of tradeoffs. We've always geared for the open road and Pat went down to the recent races they got whooped because the bikes were geared too tall. Pat is now working on some new custom sprockets for our drum hubs that should fix that in a hurry.

There are lots of folks that can help you here.

Rich

ps the S6S has a splined shaft, no puller required. Read the clutch sticky if its still there.
Click to expand...
Oh man I forgot all about the extremely loud and brutal racket these make!!! He is going to have to detune big time considerably to tame his exhaust noise and not upset the general public with that pipe. I am so lucky even at ''wide open throttle'' my exhaust noise is in no way louder than that of a stock china at wide open.:p
 
cory151

cory151

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Oct 19, 2010
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itchybird said:
Cory,

The 'clutch trim' does not apply to the S6S, you should have the three shoe clutch. Everyone has the same initial problem, WOT might as well stand for SIT, as the bike will sit there with you thinking you did something wrong.

If you look at the link that goat posted, it will take you thru the clutch tuning I did, and I can putter my bike around as slow as I please. If you go with the setup I used, I can guarantee your bike will behave as it is supposed to.

As for ultimate clutch tuning... gear ratio, personal preference (ie do you want a cruiser or racer), weight, etc all play into the final setting. I ride a lot thru the neighborhood, so I need a bike with some manners -can't go running around at WOT with a super loud pipe and still be cool with the neighbors.

I run a 45 tooth rear which is good for cruising but is a bit tall for ultimate performance. If you want rocket ship acceration, you need to be 52T or more, but acceration comes at the expense of top speed. Its all a matter of tradeoffs. We've always geared for the open road and Pat went down to the recent races they got whooped because the bikes were geared too tall. Pat is now working on some new custom sprockets for our drum hubs that should fix that in a hurry.

There are lots of folks that can help you here.

Rich

ps the S6S has a splined shaft, no puller required. Read the clutch sticky if its still there.
Click to expand...
OK thanks itchy I was really scratching my head on that whole clutch thing. I just ordered a pipe off a KTM 50 and Ill fab it to work with the help of your header flange. Once my puller/piston stop gets here and Im back from vacation Ill be able to get into my clutch. I ordered the puller because in that video it had the guy using one. dangit!

Did you just pull out the one flat washer on each shoe or did you take more?

Thanks
 
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I

itchybird

Member
Nov 4, 2009
316
6
18
SF Bay Area.
Hey Cory,

Cut from an earlier post:

Steps as follows
1. Drain the oil (small phillips screw at the base of the cover) and remove the side cover off with 5mm allen wrench -leave the kickstart lever on, do not remove it.
2. Remove the clutch nut with 19 mm wrench, Note: it has reverse threads. Either use a piston stop to hold the clutch, or slip a small phillips screw drive thru the hub (it has small holes at edge of the drum -peek between the shoes and you'll see 'em) and into the large drive gear. Once you have it braced, remove the 19 mm nut.
3. After the nut is removed, you should be able to wiggle the clutch off the end of the shaft -you don't need a puller.
4. Wipe off the clutch real well, and remove each of the three clutch shoes using 4 mm allen, be careful to make sure the washers stay on the bolts (makes it easier) and make sure you get all the flat washers out of the hole too.
5. Adjust stack height. I used {}{}{}{}{}/ (using thinest flat washer) for a stack height of 0.455 inches -yours maybe different, but this should get you close. I measured each stack to ensure they were the same. A dial caliper works great for this. If you don't have one, buy one, its an important item in any tool box.
6. Reinstall the three shoes -be sure to use lock-tite! Tighten the bolt till it bottoms. Don't be surprised if the shoes will not clamp firmly to the hub, mine had about 0.040 inches of play. Fear not.
7. Reinstall the clutch nut -again use lock-tite (remember, reverse threads).
8. Reinstall the cover -just re-use the gasket.
9. Fill with MTL 75 wt transmission lube (says 'wet clutch approved') available at your favorite motorcycle shop.
10. Take your bike for a ride that will amaze.

If it still slips too much, take it down another 0.005. If it hooks up too much, add 0.005. You'll find you can dial in very well and if its not exactly right, don't settle. Make another adjustment.
Once adjusted, the Morini is as tame as the little China motors, don't let anyone tell you that these motors can not be made to behave, I can ride my bike as slow and easy I like.

The first time might take you an hour, but after a couple of times, you can get it to about a half hour.

Rich
 
I

itchybird

Member
Nov 4, 2009
316
6
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SF Bay Area.
...as for pipe, you are on the right track to start with an off the shelf pipe, I did the same thing.

The Morini builds are all about the mounts and the pipe, there is no off the shelf solution. Your pipe looks pretty loud, especially if you have a high RPM clutch setting. You'll be much happier with a full pipe and a real silencer.

I found a used pipe on the cheap, then cut the pipe at the original welds into three or four main pieces, then twisted and rotated until it fit. I used wide masking tape to hold the pieces together and when I was happy, I marked every thing and had my brother tig it all back together for me. It was challenging (and time consuming) overall I was pretty happy with the final outcome, but I wished I could have tucked it in more. Makes you appreciate the effort that went into the stock pipe even more.

No worries though, summer still has a lot of days left.
 
cory151

cory151

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Finally got my the clutch adjusted and all I can say is wow!!!

With an all aluminum framed bike and a 60 tooth rear sprocket I dont need to pedal thats for sure. I spent most oh the day beating cars from a dead stop. The I am able to stop and start without pedaling on the steepest hills I can find. I dont know how some of you guys are getting an impact over that crank nut, I tried all metric and SAE sizes to no avail. I have the special Morini socket for the crank, thankfully or I would be in a hard place when it come to torque wrench time.

I think Im gonna go to a small rear sprocket as wheelies are not really my thing, perhaps a 56 would be a better compromise.

 
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