3 shoe clutch issues

magrider · Dec 24, 2012

I would try a few less expensive alternatives before dropping $$$ for the Tomar. it's a great clutch but I haven't got it running perfect yet.

I used these washers to fine tune the cutch engagement http://www.k2parts.com/product/display/3194/clutch_shim_washer_kit I also used the SS Morini bevel washers, in the 3 shoe, It engaged when I wanted and didn't slip.

I've ridden kens bike that has the Tomar and I know what it is capable of and that's why I purchased the tomar, it'll get there soon.

Check out Goats posts like Dennis said, and write down all different arrangements of what works and doesn't. good luck

headtrama · Dec 24, 2012

blckwlfny1 said:
....took mine for a ride today
after fixing the exhaust (no leaks now) and restricting the 98cc muffler
i have a noticeable amount more torque.
but the clutch still slips a little too much. the result is that when going up a good hill, the clutch slips all the way up. im sure this isnt good.
with my 2-speed gearbox, i have the equivalent of a 120t sprocket in low gear.
ill gladly invest in a tomar clutch if it grips better, but id hate to pay $350 on a gamble.
...or does anyone think i should go back to the stock washers?...any suggestions on a stack that will engage low and stick like GLUE?

Your bike looks cool , I think you should redo your exhaust .the stinger on it is a littl long and looks to big. Also I would find a better expansion chamber for it . Something with some headpipe before the expansion chamber . Look on treatland they have some nice pipes there.

blckwlfny1 · Dec 24, 2012

Damn! i was afraid you were gonna say that

its really cool that you took time to give me the input though. Thanks.
...im kinda stuck on the exhaust because the bike's creation was for ww2 airshows and such.
Im copying this:
http://s1336.beta.photobucket.com/u...pg.html?&_suid=135636714929605235612824963214

... trying to mimic a very specific look and performance seem to be butting heads here.

i saw that you added boyesen reeds. what size fits your DeNardis?

ive restricted the muffler a bit and that has upped the torque....any advice on creating a small baffle off of the exhaust manifold?

headtrama · Dec 24, 2012

No problem < i think you can still get the look your after with a real tuned exhaust . Here is one from treatland that I saw .https://www.treatland.tv/puch-moped-BLACK-BOSS-performance-pipe-p/puch-tecno-boss-black-pipe.htm. Add some tubing for the head pipe and run it between your crank arms maybe . The key to performance is a good expansion chamber . The reeds are from a ktm 50 02 to 08 should work . What you can do is slip a smaller piece of pipe into your stinger to reduce the I.D. of the tube. What is the I.D. Of your stinger now ?

blckwlfny1 · Dec 25, 2012

hmmm.....1"OD so 3/4 - 7/16 iID.

headtrama · Dec 25, 2012

Try and get the I.d. down to half inch .

blckwlfny1 · Dec 25, 2012

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!
Ill probably sleeve it like you said and essentially have an internal stinger which will then dump into the larger pipe which isconnected to the muffler. How long do you think would be good for the stinger?

Maxvision · Jan 3, 2013

I bought one of those chinese 3 shoe knock-offs. Have NEVER been able to get it right. I put it up on a shelf somewhere and forgot about it...

dmb · Jan 4, 2013

send it to me scotty, maybe i can make it work for ya. dennis

16v4nrbrgr · Mar 29, 2013

I just read in the KTM bible that the genuine KTM washers are good for 8 hours of use and then should be retired. I might start looking for a coil spring and bobbin kit for my clone motor so that it can be used to cruise, I would hope that means 8 hours of full throttle, when the springs are hot and compressed.

Edit, found some on Ebay that are supposed to offer lower progressive engagement for $25 so I said what the heck, next time I open my clutch case up I'm gonna try these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230951298550?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

16v4nrbrgr · Apr 1, 2013

I received the coil springs today, once I have the proper sprocket installed for a 62 mph top speed I will test out the stack I'm currently running, and then maybe switch to the coil springs to see if there's a positive change in how it rides. Before that I need to get a proper tach, mine was mislabeled and sold on ebay for a single, it's really for a twin or a inline.

Goat Herder · Apr 19, 2013

I wanted to recap on this thread having finally owned and used a Tomar clutch. This thing rocks and for me have been absolutely solid. The maintenance is null and void compared to my past experience with the Stock 3 stone. Sure I played with it getting my sweet spot. After that just set back and totally enjoyed it. There has been mebbe 1/8th the maintenance necessary?

Although have not road my machine anything like I did last year. Yet...........Gotta say it has been plain out very obvious to me to go out to the bike and every time have a clutch just dead on violated ape style, hitting hard every time has been outstanding. I love this clutch..Tomar kicks Butt!!!

16v4nrbrgr · May 12, 2013

So I tookk the first ride with the 80t on a 20" occ rear today, and it totally solved all the clutch issues.

I'm running 250cc Redline D4 ATF + LSD friction modifier additive and the clutch has Goat herder's old stack and weep hole mod + the posts are shimmed up with HF hardened machine screw washers so there is no preload but the shoes are closer to the drum. It has been great so far, I'll try to post what works and what doesn't and the wear/spring fatigue rate.

dmb · May 12, 2013

wow! it looks like it will climb a tree. how fast with that sprocket?

headtrama · May 13, 2013

Clutch settings and gear ratios go hand in hand. Looks like with that gearing your bike would top out at 20 25.mph. With the smaller wheels you should be able to gear it down. I run a 51 tooth rear sprocket and a 11 tooth front sprocket with 26 inch wheels and still feels like it's geared to low on the street. But if your happy with it that's cool enjoy the ride.

16v4nrbrgr · May 13, 2013

No, actually it's geared for 55-60 mph actually, the gearing on these is way different than a happy time.

With a 44t on 20" wheels it was geared too high and the performance was abysmal, with this sprocket it actually performs like it should.

Here's a pic showing the proper sprocket to wheel size ratio on the KTM adventure Senior, which will do 55 easily.

Not reinventing the wheel here. Centrifugal clutch tuning is about spooling, if you gear too tall you'll never make peak power and it will take forever to get there.

Easy Rider · May 13, 2013

Your bike has gears?

16v4nrbrgr · May 13, 2013

No, just centrifugal like the KTM 50 Adventure Senior that the Martin & Slater KTM clone is designed as a direct replacement for. With a 44t it would do 60 but the performance below 25 was weak, makes sense because that sprocket would be good for 110 without air or mechanical resistance.

Basically the way it works now is that it will slip until it hits the torque peak and keep slipping until the wheels catch up to the motor at about 35 mph. From there it feels hooked up and has a run to continue pulling, I only went about 45 with it the other day because I'm still kinda shocked and want to make sure its safe before doing this all the time.

headtrama · May 13, 2013

GPS the the bike and tell us the top speed. It still seems to me that it would blow threw the rpm range with that low gearing to fast once it hit the power band. The stock gearing on those Ktm 50's is like a 48. The faster kids on a big track will gear them around a 44 or 40 and hit about 50 on a long straight. These Chinese clones only like to rev about 10,500.i have spun mine to 13,000 but it wasn't making any power there. Like I said GPS it and let's see what it does.

dmb · May 13, 2013

get your kicks on route 66. you gotta love that sticker...but andy's right looks like 25 mph max to me. but it would get their pretty quick! dennis

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