We need a stronger rear wheel hub!

Alright everybody:
I don't know about you all, but I'm experiencing some real problems with the Worksman wheel and it's Shimano E-110 coaster brake hub. A slow bike will probably do OK with this hub, but if you are going 40 MPH+ it is no good! NO GOOD!
Okay, so I weigh about 180 pounds, and I don't drive my bike on bad roads. Even with the Schwalbe balloon tire at 25 psi, it cannot protect the flimsy little 3/8" shaft from getting bent. A solution must come! Big Boy Bicycles in California offers two options. Their super duty hub sports a 3/4" axle, and it will fit standard 3/8" dropouts. The downside to this hub is that it costs $210.00.

I was originally thinking of making some extra strong 4340 alloy steel shafts for these hubs, but I have doubts that this will be adequate.

I will investigate the E-110 hub and try to come up with some kind of fix kit. If this is possible, the coaster brake would have to go.

I don't know, perhaps the best thing to do is make a totally new hub. Like Big Boy Bicycles super duty hub, I doubt that a hub I make will have a coaster brake either. No rear brake.... can people deal with that?

Basically, this seems like a tough little problem for those, like me who have a hard time shelling out 210 dollars for a good rear hub.

I need all the help and suggestions I can get for this one!

Thanks a lot.

-Fred

Wow, you have built hundreds? That is a lot! I'm impressed. I'm sure I don't have a lack of grease in the hub. I've only been running this wheel for like 4 months or so. I'm very confident the lubrication is adequate because I have to make repairs very often and repack with plenty of fresh extreme pressure grease. The root problem is that the axle keeps getting bent. Maybe your roads are better than mine. You guys in California are blessed to not have to deal with Below freezing Winters, like here in New Hampshire. Norman, Don't most of your bikes operate in urban areas, where speeds usually don't exceed 40 MPH?
Out here in rural N.H. I like to travel fast, so I don't have cars passing me on narrow roads. I'm usually cruising at top speed which is now between 40-50 MPH. Until some kind of improvement is made, I'll either have to slow down at the first sign of bumps, or get a motorcycle.



-Fred

Venice Motor Bikes said:

Yes I've built hundreds of these bikes; Yes we usually ride at speeds around 40 MPH; Yes I weight more than you, & NO I don't have a problem with bending these axles.

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Okay Norm... Relax.
All this means is that your roads must be nice and smooth.
I detect a certain amount of disbelief that I'm bending axles. In the past 2 months I've managed to bend 3 axles. The first one broke. I can assure you that I'm putting things together correctly as well. I wish it was something I was doing wrong, so it would be easy to rectify.

-Fred

young grease monkey said:

Maybe look into an axle made of stronger steel. All it is is threaded rod, if I remember it right. You should be able to find high grade threaded rod. Try mcmaster carr. You could make a hub with sealed cartridge bearings and disc brake flange. I think some people here have used the disc flange for both brakes and a sprocket. Or make an adapter like manic mechanic.

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Young grease monkey:

Yes, making a stronger axle would be the easiest solution. Just one thing I would like to note; the stock axles are not too shabby. They are at least a medium carbon steel which is heat treated! I suspect that they are probably using a lower grade of steel, like 1030 - 1045. The deluxe steel I would choose would be 4340. This steel is alloyed with some more expensive materials, which is why I suspect they don't use it for the stock axles. But for all the trouble, an extra .$50 for the fancy alloy is a small price to pay. After threading the stock, I would heat treat it to about RC 35-45. This would be the strongest 3/8 axle I would be able to come up with, but would it hold up?
I'll check Mc Master Carr, and see if they have a really strong threaded rod.
Thanks a lot for the suggestions!

-Fred

Oh wow!
You mistook my words!
I am extremely impressed with the fact that you have put together hundreds of bikes! That is a very serious number! I almost never use sarcasm, in fact, my wife calls me "literal man".

Also, I don't even have to mention some of the things related to engine performance you have experience with; Piston mods. & reed valves to name a few.

Even though I may have some decent technical expertise of my own, when you look at my limited motorized bicycle experience, I consider myself a greenhorn in this business.

Things are cool with me Norm, for sure!

-Fred

biknut said:

I was wondering about the dropouts myself. Maybe the rear of the frame flexes at the speeds you're getting up to.

It's hard to understand how the axle could bend when it's bolted solid between the dropouts, without bending the frame.

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Yeah, that's good Biknut!
I think Norm mentioned that too. I think you are on to something. The axle is tight in there, if it bends, the frame allowed it to do so! The dropouts are quite flimsy. That can't be helping things.

Well, apparently if you drive fast over bumps, it bends the rear axle. Okay, I can wrap my head around that; after all, it's only a little 3/8" diameter threaded rod, how strong can that be?

-Fred

biknut said:

After looking at pictures of your bike, I think the way your seat is mounted is contributing to the problem. Your rear seat supports could be the stressing the dropouts.

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Yeah, right on Biknut!
It's true, my seat is pushed farther back, putting more weight on the rear, plus there is a little lead acid scooter battery in that little compartment behind the seat, that's probably another 6-8 pounds. My bike is starting to get really fast; I think I'm just beating the crap out of my bike and it can't take it! Time for a moped with rear suspension!

Thanks for the input. I think you have honed right in on what's going on.

-Fred

Yeah, Harold
You are right about hardness. You can go too far. I'm only going to go to about RC 38-45. That's pretty high, but will retain enough ductility. The main increase in strength will be from the alloy I use, which will be 4340. I doubt they made the axles with material of that quality, so it will be an improvement. The question is, will it be enough of an improvement.

Those balloon tires are a help. Right now, I'm using a Schwalbe "big apple" tire. I think it's a 2.35 wide tire. It alone has helped smooth the ride significantly. I have tried various tire pressures ranging from 30 psi to 50 psi. I like the ride 30 psi brings.

The axle seems to bend in the middle.
When I make replacement axles, I'll thread only as much as necessary, so to retain as much strength as possible.

I've been looking into these really fat tires that have been developed for people who like to ride bikes in the snow. I think they have tires up to about 4 inches wide! Most of the tires are knobby, but there is one street version; it's totally awesome!

You can check out some of these bikes. I think one guy calls his stuff "Dave's Fat Cycles" I have found extra wide rims to support these tires. To run these tires however, you must modify the frame. Even though there is a lot of custom work required to run this kind of tire, I think it is a really good solution for the lack of rear suspension most of us have to live with.

Thanks for the input. You are right on about over doing it with hardening things. I'll go to the edge, but not over it!



-Fred