V belt, How buy?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Nehmo, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Nehmo

    Nehmo Member

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    Say I want a 20" circumference V belt. How would I buy one without ordering online? I'm in Kansas City. Parts stores don't seem to list them by length.

    And where would I get one of those emergency repair belts (adjustable)?
     
    #1 Nehmo, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  2. Nehmo

    Nehmo Member

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    I just remembered I can use Nylons.
     
  3. goog

    goog New Member

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    I might get a heavy string to what you want tied off,they have these adj. checkers for fit might get you pretty close.Graingers will have your adj. belts. A belts read two numbers down from 4L's.
     
  4. Tool Maker

    Tool Maker New Member

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    Chain auto parts stores have the belts listed by size, but the guy behind the counter does not know it.

    Belts are listed by width & length in the part number. The width is described in 32nd inch increments. A 15/32" wide belt is a "15", a 17/32" wide belt is a "17", and so on. Odd numbered 32nd sizes are standard.

    The length is also part of the part number. A 29" belt would be a "290". A 34 1/2" belt would be a "345"

    So, a 15/32" wide 29" belt would be a 15290, sometimes listed as a 15-290, or they reverse the number (dayco) 29015. But the size of the belt is always buried in the part number.

    The length of the belt is listed at the gauge line, which is about .100 below the top surface of the belt.

    B.
     
  5. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    From my thread see post #64 in the area near bottom about how to measure section belts circumference, I found yesterday the bumps of the links interfere so you have to note that.

    http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=440944#post440944

    I'll be setting up adjustment so I can tension pulleys between twin stacked jackshafts where I attain a 40:1 ratio on a 26 inch wheel. The power plant is the Briggs 808202 0430 3hp 4 stroke side shaft 70's era engine on a JC Penney Foremost steel frame from the mid 60's that I dumpster dived for. This finished with the transmission it will get a California Sheepshead Fish cloth art cover and creep along at below 5 mph for parades. Oh 1/2 ing the ratio to 20:1 and OHV dirt bike as well as an alternate.

    MT
     
  6. Nehmo

    Nehmo Member

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    That's what I wanted. I knew there had to be a code for size in the part number. I plan to go back to AutoZone and educate them.
    Meanwhile, I got some nylon string, and I plan to just wrap that around the pullies, heating it to seal it to itself. For this minimal amount of torque, it should work.
     
  7. Nehmo

    Nehmo Member

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    I still haven't found a correct-size belt. The local AutoZone goes down to 23". I need a V-belt, type A, 19.5" inside circumference.
    Nylon string didn't work - too much slip.
    I'm riding the bike around, and I'll try OReilly (again) tomorrow.
     
  8. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    From Measure Twice

    Note as Tool Maker said "The length of the belt is listed at the gauge line, which is about .100 below the top surface of the belt."

    You want not the inside, but the top outside measurement. The inside measure is what I started out and made that error before as well. There is quite a difference and it would not be long enough if someone at a store gets a match unknowingly for length when you offer inside and the specification is for the outside measure.

    I don't really know any easy conversion between the two, so it would be best to get the top edge of the pulleys that is the full length.

    I have an equation to get the length of a belt that is good to fit between two pulleys given the diameter of the two pulleys, the diameter of the two shaft bores, and the distance between the centers of the two shaft bores. I heard of this from help at Grainger. I knew I could do this myself but without the use of this nifty mathematical constant, I would have used trigonometry and way more steps figuring it out. Should you or others already know of it or would like to know how it is done, I’ll post it.

    I got a Gates belt from the Kragen Auto Parts store near me and I had already check at the Gates site directly and some other sites too. Kragen ordered it and had it in 1 day. You may see the site for Gates.

    http://www.gatespowerpro.com/Comerg...ngeSearchFrame&CFID=66126567&CFTOKEN=62251376


    http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2277&location_id=2743


    I got one that is as short as 18 inches just fyi.

    MT

    The info on the 6818 gave this from Gate Website:



    Product ID
    84236818


    Part #
    4L180K, 6818


    Product Description
    6818 POWERATED BELT


    UPC
    072053004236


    Category Hierarchy
    Industrial Power Transmission -> Light Duty V-Belts -> PoweRated® V-Belts -> 2 or 4L Section, P.N. Series 8423
    Automotive -> Belts -> PoweRated® Belts

    Product Images




    Product Features

    Application
    Category Name Description These green belts are an alternative to conventional light-duty belts, with high performance construction delivering more horsepower, less stretch and providing longer service life.

    Features Advantages Aramid Tensile Cords combine limited stretch with extraordinary strength and durability.
    Meets RMA oil and heat resistant standards.
    Bareback construction for smooth clutching on shock loaded, backside-idler driven equipment.
    PoweRated belts transmit more hp than conventional utility belts, up to 17 hp.
    Gives outstanding performance on drives with backside idlers.
    Green Flex-Weave cover resists heat, oil and cracking.
    Superior performance on clutching and backside idler drives.
    NOTE: Can be substituted for equivalent sizes of Truflex V-Belts.

    Markets/Applications PoweRated belts are suitable for outdoor power equipment, appliances and industrial applications where FHP belts are typically used.

    Belt / Sprocket Specifications
    Effective Length (in) 18.17

    Effective Length (mm) 462

    Outside Circumference (in) 18

    Outside Circumference (mm) 457

    Recommended Sheaves Light-Duty Sheaves-Bored-to-Size
    Light-Duty Sheaves-Variable Pitch
    Light-Duty Sheaves-Bushed

    Top Width (in) .5

    Top Width (mm) 13

    Packaging
    Customer Pack 1.0

    Standard Pack 120

    Product Attributes
    Section 4L

    Weight
    Weight (Lbs.) .11



    Datasheet References

    Safety and Usage Disclaimer
     

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    #8 MEASURE TWICE, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  9. Tool Maker

    Tool Maker New Member

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    The inside diameter of the belt is meaningless.

    Belts are measured at the gauge line that is just below the Top surface of the belt.

    Are your pulleys wide enough at the top of the Vee to hold a 17/32 wide belt? The wider belt rides up higher, so it uses a larger belt.

    If you have an old V belt, you can cut it then wrap it around both pulleys for a measurement. Pull it snug, and where the 2 ends overlap, draw a line across the back of both pieces in a straight line. Then lay the belt out flat & measure between the two marks. That is the closest measurement you will get.

    .
     
  10. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    I was careful to see if that equation worked so I measured the outside as you mentioned, but the equation worked quite well.

    Calipers across the outside edge of the pulley or the teeth of a sprocket and the shaft bore diameter size and the distance between shaft centers may be easy to measure. This could pardon me, but not just measure twice (my handle), but measure different ways both correct, and use as an error checking (correlation).

    MT
     
  11. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    Example

    4.48” Pulley with 5/8” Shaft

    2.00” Pulley with 5/8” Shaft

    Distance between both pulley shaft centers =
    Distance outer edge of both shafts – [ (½ X shaft 1st pulley diameter) + (½ X shaft 2nd pulley diameter) ]

    In my case the Distance between both pulley shaft centers = 4”

    4.48” X (constant 1.57) = 7.0336”

    2.00” X (constant 1.57) = 3.1400”

    7.0336” + 3.1400” = 10.1736”

    2 X (Distance between both pulley shaft centers 4”) = 8”

    10.1736” + 8” = 18.1736”

    This is what I heard and seem to work out nice. Something else just noticed and sort of unique: the 2" pulley times the constant 1.57 = 3.14 as that is Pi (Greek Letter for that constant that it is)

    MT

    :eek:
     
  12. goog

    goog New Member

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    Tool Makers method with old belt is great.If you could find a adj. pulley cheap enough you could have even more adjustment.Good luck.
     
  13. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    #13 MEASURE TWICE, Nov 30, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  14. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    Goog yes as I mentioned as well Tool Makers point on how to measure is right!

    On Goog's note about being able to adjust:

    Here is a picture of one side of the dual jack shaft brackets with pillow bearing holders. Note I slotted the bracket for bottom pillow bearing holder as there is enough room for the pulley to move further down and tighten up the belt sufficiently.

    MT
     

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  15. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    Nehmo, Goog mentions about adjustable pulleys and I think they have them at Grainger, but I thought I was going to at first be able to adjust length with the section belts where links of the belt can be removed or added to adjust length. Only thing is that the tension I needed and that the belt stretched so adjustment that way did not snug up enough. The belt slipped on the smaller of the two pulleys. The regular v-belt that I got at the auto parts store Kragen was a Gates belt and does have very little stretch. I made a slotted adjustment and move the whole bottom jack shaft up or down, which for my dual stacked jack shaft allows the tension between top an bottom jack shaft pulleys to be set just right without slipping.

    I will look to see what kind of cost there is involved in adjustable diameter pulleys, as it may be in the future for me if in the big picture it is easier.

    MT
     
  16. Nehmo

    Nehmo Member

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    In my case, I also can drill new holes and move either the shaft bearings or the engine. Basically, I need something short enough. I was hoping a local parts store would stock one, but so far no luck. (My pulley's label states type A, and Gates gives 0.5" top width for A.)
    Yes, there is a Grainger (I bought the bearings there) in Kansas City, but I have to take a couple of buses + bike to get there. Plus, today is Friday.
    Right now, I have the engine mounted on the bike as cargo. I have the shaft and pulleys detached in the bucket I use as a front basket. The first free moment I get, I'll head to a parts store.
     
  17. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    Grainger has this: Adjustable pulley and with a little math I calculated that with an A section belt for adjustment diameter of the pulley 2.1" to 3.1" you could have one half the pulley where the belt seats in going from a length of 3.297" to 4.867". The adjustment being length change of 1.57" which for around $13.28 I now think it would have been the way to go instead of slotting the bracket as I did.

    One last thing though as I called and spoke with a rep at Grainger, the adjustment is done by rotation the threaded half portion of the pulley and tighten down in the key-way. This means whatever one revolution equates to in diameter, that is the increment of the adjustment and you would have to live with. I will stop by one of their store to bring calipers and see what the increment amounts to, but I suspect it could have easily worked in my system.

    MT

    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/CONGRESS-VBelt-Pulley-1X448?Pid=search

    Power Transmission
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    CONGRESS V-Belt Pulley, 3.25 OD, 5/8 Bore, Var Pitch

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    V-Belt Pulley, Variable Pitch Fixed Bore, Bore Dia. 5/8 In., Outside Dia. 3.25 In., 1 Groove, 4L, A, or AX Belt Pitch Dia. 2.1 to 3.1 In., 5L, B, or BX Belt Pitch Dia. 2.4 to 3.2 In., 3/16 x 3/32 In. Keyway, Die Cast (Zamak #3) Material, For Use With 4L, 5L, A, or B Type V-Belts

    Grainger Item # 1X448
    Price (ea.) $13.28
    Brand CONGRESS
    Mfr. Model # VP325X062KW
    UNSPSC # 31171804
    Ship Qty. 1
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    Ship Weight (lbs.) 0.9
    Availability Ready to Ship
    Catalog Page No. 143
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    (Country of Origin is subject to change.) USA
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  18. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    For a while on and off in the past I was without a welder, so this meant sometimes I could have made things easier and better if I had a welder available all the time.

    My jack shaft brackets for the pillow bearing holders could have been made much better, but I have so much time already invested in them, I am leaving it as is. The problem I was at first concerned about was that for adjustment the slotting lengthened the area that already was thinned out to allow the bellow bearings to not hit the bracket which the holder was mounted on.

    For fear of the slotting taking too much of the overall metal in the bracket away, I beefed it up by welding a thicker one side to make up the difference. Working with what you have available at the time is just the way it is, but we get by anyhow.

    The adjustable pulley I am still really thinking of using in place of one of the pulleys that goes from my bottom jackshaft to the rear wheel drive pulley. This is so can tension the rear wheel drive belt.

    I do not feel it right to adjust that belt by having the threads on the rear wheel axle anywhere but where it should be farthest back and tightened down. I may even weld over so there is no drop out and for removal you have to disassemble the hub. Or at least recreate what has already been done on kid bikes that will not allow the wheel to come off very easily without first removing a clip on both sides of the front and rear drop outs.

    Cost for the adjustable diameter pulley well worth the safety factor!

    Thanks for the hints all!

    MT

    (p)
     

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  19. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    There was a tip in a car book just a month ago. Do like ToolMaker says and when you get it to fit thke a staple gun and put a couple staples in it, then you can take it to the store and get one just the right size.........Curt
     
  20. MEASURE TWICE

    MEASURE TWICE Well-Known Member

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    I once had the auto parts store allow me to bring in the whole bike in that back where all the belts were hanging on the racks. I took my tools as well with me and I was allowed to try on as many belts as I liked and only buy what fit. That I don't expect to happen all the time but it did back then.

    MT
     

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