small diesel engine moped.

Discussion in '2 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits' started by industrialphreak, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. industrialphreak

    industrialphreak New Member

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    Well its been awhile since i last putted around this forum. Been rather busy working at the truck stop with some CAT's and Peter's no pun intended. ;')

    Anyway one thing that i have been thinking about as of lately was the feasibility of grafting a APU kubota or Morpower micro diesel engine to one of our lovely beasties. I've done a little research into the topic and have found that for a short time during the turn of the century their were in fact traction drive engine kits available, and once in awhile you will hear about a diesel engine powered motorcycle that a good portion of your Purists motorcyclists will growl and make a big stink just at the concept and misconception that diesel motorcycles would be a b&*ch. I do understand that standard gasoline and electrics already have one heck of a fuel economy margin and theirs some rather brave souls grafting wood gas/GEEK as well as GEET fuel processors/reactors in a attempt to squeeze a little more performance outa these china girls.

    The fact is i seriously dont wanna pay a bloody cent for fuel, neither wish to risk incarceration from stealing fuel from others. With a Small diesel engine i could seriously rox a sustainable and somewhat ecological sound form of transit fueling from the dump tank of my local fast food chain.

    So now i am done with my rant, what do you guys think from this diversion from the usual motorized bicycle norm?
     
  2. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    I think it a most excellent idea - I've been a diesel fan for quite some time and have been seeking one that falls within the average 49cc or less requirement most states have for mopeds/motorized bicycles...

    With absolutely no success whatsoever :( Save the 1950's 18cc Lohmann ofc, not really a viable option (unless you manage to find one ofc lol);

    [​IMG]
    1952 diesel LOHMANN ENGINE

    Diesel detractors bemoan excessive cost, weight, vibration and noise as well as the usual fuel gelling problems in cold weather... I say "PFFT!" as the simplicity, reliability, fuel economy & amazing torque makes a diesel motorized bike a very worthy experiment, most particularly for a distance runner like a recumbent trike...

    Unfortunately the engines you refer too are far too large for my needs @ 10 Hp, 406 cc (Morpower) & 166lbs (Kubota), but thanks for the research & links man (^)
     
    #2 BarelyAWake, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  3. Roach

    Roach New Member

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    Seems at one time washing machines used small diesel motors. These are very cool. But vintage and hard to find. Probably cost a fortune if you could find one. The collectors like them.

    3 Old Maytags

    there's a couple diesel bikes on youtube. A little large for bicycles but still cool.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trlp6aNDN24&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAy8DrojAuQ&feature=related

    I love diesels. I have a couple old VW rabbits. I'm in the process of converting one to veggie oil. It would be very cool to have both a truck and bicycle running on wvo.
     
    #3 Roach, Sep 16, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  4. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    I recall reading about and appreciating the Lohman. If someone could reproduce that in something approaching 49cc it would be a winner for sure. It was a good design.
    SB
     
  5. Drewd

    Drewd New Member

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    I too am a dieselhead. My wife's 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee is a diesel and my 06 Jeep Liberty is also a diesel.

    I'd buy a diesel MB in a heartbeat if I can. Right now I'm saving up for a diesel ATV. Polaris and Arctic Cat have made them.
     
  6. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    Drewd,
    One of the cool things about the Lohman was that it did not use a glow plug, spark plug... whatever you call it in diesels. (I've never had one.) Somehow or other it used compression if I remember right. Barelyawake, help me here. How did that work? Anyway, it was real departure from everything else at the time, very innovative.
    SB
     
  7. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    Generally speaking diesels usually use a glow plug simply for primary ignition & warm up - once the temps reach the appropriate level compression & heat alone serve to ignite the fuel/air mix, If I remember correctly lol, the Lohmann (and some others) had variable compression settings to assist in maximum performance & ignition, perhaps not needing even a glow plug *shrug*

    Although not true diesels (mixed fuels, kerosene, ether, castor etc), some model aircraft engines operate on this same principal, a battery is hooked to a glow plug & once ignited it's removed - leaving no (functioning) electrical components at all, I believe the Lommann used a paraffin mix and not (modern) diesel fuel... I don't really know for sure as I've no experience w/one. Unfortunately model "diesel" fuel is prohibitively expensive, sad as there's some "giant" scale engines that would otherwise be viable candidates for MBs... mebbe... depending on level of determination & insanity ofc;

    Tartan 50cc twin (no longer in production)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    TARTAN 77 TWIN ENGINE. AWESOME CONDITION. NO RESERVE (07/13/2009)...

    There's been some experimentation amongst the model airplane guys, some research into true diesel conversions & even biodiesel... but I've not found anything I could consider "conclusive" and viable... but on the other hand I'm not a model airplane guy & I've not actually talked to anyone or even seen converted engines - it's got potential tho... perhaps someone with some actual modeling experience might chime in? ;)

    Diesels have never seemed particularly popular in the States, our infrastructure defo favoring gasoline - I'm constantly surprised that with today's fuel prices that we've not seen a rise in popularity in small diesel engines as they're relatively commonplace in other countries *shrug* We've some ofc, but we seem to mostly use 'em for large trucks and heavy equipment.

    There's a buncha fascinating info here: Diesel engine including 2 & 4 stroke, turbo & superchargers and ofc some history :D
     
    #7 BarelyAWake, Sep 17, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  8. industrialphreak

    industrialphreak New Member

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    Thanks folks...

    its a very viable option looking into this "new" form of power plant for motor-bicycling, one idea i tried to get of the ground but still looking forward to hearing back from their little project. Preferably getting involved with the Practica foundation in order to start using their microdiesel engine for motor bicycles.
    you can check out a quick video feed of their engine in operation. when i first found out about it i shot of a few over excited emails that very well have scared and or annoyed these fine people.

    engine running on strait waste vegtable oil. YouTube - PRACTICA micro diesel

    From the looks from the recent update it looks like its ripe for incorporation into a GPL hardware project, i may very well look into to getting something started if i can find a willing machinist to fabricate some of its componants and rox some form of open source ECU. Preferably utilizing a MSP430 but very well might just look into using a pic based system.

    Any fellow *nixers out their interested in helping get this off the ground?
     
  9. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    Interesting stuff - thanks for the tip! Here's a few pics & a link to their homesite: The PRACTICA Foundation

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Of particular interest is their findings on the Lohmann (tho not really a surprise lol) as well as the various reports, test results and drawings available as .pdf files @ the bottom of their page :) Unfortunately this scale engine (Lohmann 18cc, 0,8hp) & the roughly equivalent output of their prototypes may be insufficient for the current motorized bicycle market, additional potential problems is that the Practica Foundation is focusing on a stationary engine design...
     
    #9 BarelyAWake, Sep 18, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  10. reb1

    reb1 New Member

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    Another problem with diesels is the governments rules on emissions. Even though you might only use bio fuel they require all diesel motors to meet the epa or carb standards using regular diesel fuel before they allow them to be sold in the US.
    The small diesel that was discussed was being designed to give water pumping capability and electric lighting for 3rd world back water communities. Such as a small village in Africa.
     
  11. reb1

    reb1 New Member

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    The small diesel engine mentioned was being designed for creating electricity in out of the way places like a small African village.
    If a suitable size diesel engine was manufactured the epa would require it to pass there tests for regular diesel fuel. They could care less about us using a fuel that is easier for us to produce and has less emissions.
     
  12. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    Given no such diesel engine is yet available for our application, such concerns are not yet applicable. If there is one available domestically or for import as yet unfound - than it would already be compliant.

    I believe this topic is focused on finding a currently available and appropriate diesel engine, even the development of such. Political debates, including EPA standards and what they "don't care" about are irrelevant and are actively discouraged by the administration as such are highly opinionated, often misrepresented and constantly result in conflict and strife.

    If you wish to discuss this and/or research the topic more extensively, I would suggest going here as an appropriate platform for your concerns: DieselNet: Diesel Emissions Online

    Thank you for your consideration :)
     
    #12 BarelyAWake, Sep 18, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  13. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    The Lohman lives on sort of. 18cc doesn't do it and apparently never did. I once had a link to a forum for old motored bikes with descriptions and commentary from users at the time and as I recall the Lohman had a reputation for being underpowered and fussy to operate which certainly does not mean it could not be the base for an improved version with more power and simpler operation (I'm guessing... being no mechanic of any kind). As a bicycle engine it was nice and low, compact... had a lot going for it. I wonder how big it would have to be to make it in the 50cc range. If it uses vegetable oil or other bio oils, it would not have to have the best fuel mpg, just good. Maybe someone can develop this into something viable...
    SB
     
  14. reb1

    reb1 New Member

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    Once it was decided that the Lohman would not work for its designed purpose, they stopped development for it. The smallest diesel currently available is around 4 to 5 horse power. I would be very interested in a diesel that would work for a motorized bicycle. I like the idea of running a motor on peanut oil.
     
  15. skyl4rk

    skyl4rk New Member

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  16. Techbiker

    Techbiker New Member

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    The only problem is that engine weighs 60 lbs. You would need a super heavy-duty frame to support that engine. It also only puts out 5 HP. You could get a Morini that puts out 10 hp at 1/6 the weight lol.
     
  17. Whizzerd

    Whizzerd New Member

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  18. irishpowerjunkie

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    I dont know if anyone would be interested but I am currently testing/designing a modified carb bracket with heater facility run off the exhaust to run a honda gx31 on kerosene, it cost me around 4 euro to produce at home made using steel and aluminium pipe with copper t peice from plumbing shop over centre pipe.cs.
     
  19. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    irish,
    I'd like to here what you're up to. Welcome to the forum...
    SB
     
  20. BigBlue

    BigBlue New Member

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    Hi all,

    I am also a diesel nut. I own a 2006 Jeep Liberty and have many diesel projects lined-up for the future.

    The smallest diesel I've found is 2hp:

    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/469667269/2hp_diesel_engine.html

    It is less than 26 pounds per the specs.

    Getting one to the US maybe challenging. You'd have to find a seller willing to sell one sample and declare it as a gift. Shipping would be pricey, unless you're willing to go the long, slow boat route. I've done it once in the past and feel I got lucky I didn't get scammed or have the engine confiscated by US Customs.

    Several companies import small diesel engines into the US, ranging from 6hp to 22hp. Maybe some one could request one of these companies to import the 2hp engine. Both companies have been around for several years. I've never bought any engines from them, so I can't vouch for their business practices or customer service. Carroll Stream has been on Ebay since 2002 with 100% feedback out of 3520 transactions.

    http://a1biofuel.net

    http://www.carrollstream.com

    Good Luck,

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     

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