rag joint assembly?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by matthurd, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    running into problems putting together the back sprocket. the pictures in the manual are black n white n hard to make out and i couldn't find anything here when i searched.

    i'm pretty sure i was doing it right, but my dad thinks i mite be doing it wrong and he's a bit more mechanically inclined then me.

    i had it set up sprocket, metal rings, rubber ring, spokes, rubber ring, other metal ring, washers/bolt.

    is this the right order? or did i do something wrong?
     
  2. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    Yes the rubber ring on inside and outside of the spokes
     
  3. cannonball2

    cannonball2 Active Member

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    It works better if the 3 piece ring is inside the hub. Apparently my instruction manual was incorrect.
     
  4. Venice Motor Bikes

    Venice Motor Bikes Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles

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    I'm guessing you have two sets of metal rings???

    Make sure the bolt threads are facing 'in' towards the center of the wheel.
    Also, try to get the sprocket centered as perfect as possible before totally tightening the bolts. You can see if it's centered by spinning the wheel & watching the tips of the sprocket teeth.
    Tighten the bolts in a 'star' pattern a little; then re-check for center, then tighten them a little more & re-check again....

    You need that sprocket to spin as perfectly straight as possible to avoid chain troubles! ;)
     
    #4 Venice Motor Bikes, Jan 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  5. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    the metal rings are actually unthreaded and a total of 5 (3x 3 bolt pieces, 1x 4 bolts, 1x 5 bolts) pieces, and i understand about getting it as perfectly centered as possible, thats why i'm stuck in this predicament, i think i had originally put the sprocket on upside down, so i undid it and went to put it in the way i think is the correct way. now i can't get the ring pieces (4x n 5x) back in place, so my dad is thinking i'm doing something wrong in the way i'm putting it together in general.

    could you post a pic of one completed?

    thanks.
     
  6. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Listen to Venice. He knows what he's saying. Suspend the rear wheel by some method and spin it. If the sprocket doesn't spin true you're going to have problems with the chain.
    Your assembly is correct. Sprocket-rubber-spokes-rubber-metal plates. Preferably the teeth on the sprocket should be to the outside if you have dished sprocket. This will give you maximum chain to frame and rear tire clearance. Good luck.
    Tom
     
    #6 2door, Jan 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  7. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    i got the bike upside down and using its forks to hold it n spin it, i had the teeth on the inside originally, thats why i redid it, tomorrow i'll be finishing it up trying it the way cannonball said since i can't get the 4 n 5 piece rings to fit properly, his idea seems like it mite work better. thanks foor all the advice everyone.
     
  8. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    not fitting,do You mean they are over lapping on the ends?
     
  9. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    well thats kinda part of it but i worked around it the first time, now i simply can't get them to fit over the bolts to even get them to overlap.

    once i torqued it down it didn't overlap last time so i'm not worried about that part.
     
  10. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    I know streching that rubber ring isn't easy,Originally I put the bolts through the gear and put the rubber rings and the three plates togeather and bolted it down tight and let it strech for a couple days,then put it on the wheel
    maybe could lay it by a heat vent to speed the stretch
     
  11. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    Are you working in cold conditions? Rubber shrinks some and gets very stiff and hard to work in cold temps.

    Below are some methods that have served me well .

    . I use a milk crate on the bench, lean the wheel against it with the pedal sprocket hooked on the lip,works great.

    Even in warm weather they need to be streched a little. My method is to loosely snug down the the plates, letting them overlap.

    Then you use a screwdriver by sliding it under the overlapped ends and pry them apart until the ends snap together flat on thre rubber.

    As soon as each joint snaps down, snug the bolts on either side of the joint with just enough pressure to to keep them in place.

    I have had good luck getting centered pretty well by using a steel rule and measuring between the sprocket and the inside edge of the rim.

    Use a plastic hammer, or block of hardwood and hammer to knock the sprocket around until it measures the same to the rim at 4 opposing points. I like to lay my wheels flat on the milkcrate to do this.

    Then I mount the wheel in some old forks in a vise and start snugging and checking alignment . Upside down bike works too. Be sure to snug axle nuts, or your cones may unscrew while spinning the wheel.

    A small amount of wobble is normal, but being centered is more critical.
    tightening or loosening some of the bolts some will help with wobbling

    Sometimes, if i need to move it a little and the bolts are moderatly snug, I'll put a scrap of chain on the sprocket and wack the chain,directly, with a BFH.


    The bolts need to be rather tight, the rubber discs should be mashed together hard. Use only 6 point wrenches or you may have probs with the cheap bolt heads rounding off.

    An screwgun speeds it up a lot, but use hand wrenches or ratchet for final tightening


    Hope this helps
     
    #11 wayne z, Jan 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  12. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    it is in a basement at about 60 degrees i'd say, i'll bring it upstairs tomorrow when i go in, thanks for the tips wayne, i had originally tightened them so much that the plates hard warped where where the bolts went in. i hammered em back to being straight though.

    i'll try some of your tips and hopefully have it ready to run the day my correct parts from worksman arrive. ( they were supposed to be in yesterday, wednesday, it is now thursday night and i had to call them today just to get em shipped when i was originally asking for a tracking number, needless to say i was FURIOUS when i found out they hadn't even been shipped 5 days later).

    thanks again wayne.
     
  13. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    Forgot to say, I use the one milkcrate just to get the whole assembly together loosely, and the nuts started
    After that, I lay the wheel flat , sprocket side up, across 2 crates about a foot apart,makes it easy to work both sides of the assembly.

    I flip it over to work the overlaps after I draw up the slack

    Whenever you re-install a rag joint, I have found that if the parts were marked to a single spoke, upon re-installation you can carefully align the old spoke impressions,and the sprocket will easily find it's original mounted positon.

    Luv ma milkcrates:~)
     
    #13 wayne z, Jan 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  14. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    i dont have milk crates, old pc towers will have t do xD
     
  15. cannonball2

    cannonball2 Active Member

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    The rag joints are generally not very flat. It makes assembly kinda hard. I assembled every thing in order, tightened them down with light tension then took a large screw driver to push the overlapped metal rings in place. At this point the sprocket is still loose enough to tap into position. Generally I spend 45+min tightening and checking and always end up with a nearly perfect, if not perfect alignment. The joints I have used are cut correctly, but it is the natural curvature you will fight.
     
  16. 577-Jersey

    577-Jersey New Member

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    Ive noticed most of the sprockets I've worked with have not been cut perfectly round so measuring from end of sprocket to edge of wheel will only get you close,,the only way to get a sprocket/rag joint perfect is by just snugging all the bolts up evenly,,then spin the wheel and eyeball the sprocket,,tap it with a dead blow or rubber mallet so its got no run out,,then snug in a star fashion a little more,,keep checking for wobble and run out,,after all the bolts are evenly tight,,if you have a little wobble you can get it perfect by tightening high spots where the sprocket wobbles away from the frame by sucking it in a little.
     

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