Prepping for the 1st build

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Rocky_Motor, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. Rocky_Motor

    Rocky_Motor New Member

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    Hey guys, this is my last thread to list everything I have gotten to try and make this installation go as smoothly as possible this weekend

    I got a flying horse 66cc from bikeberry.
    What I also got to make everything work as well as I can:

    Lithium grease
    Blue threadlocker
    2 stroke oil
    black zip ties
    An engine hardware kit from SBP that has all the nuts and bolts to replace the bad ones that are come with the china girl. Excluding Head nuts since I don't know the size of it.
    An exhaust gasket from SBP to replace the bad chinese one.
    and a fuel filter

    And a universal mount from bikeberry but I should have gotten it from SBP. That's okay though I'm sure I can make it work.

    I am very excited for this, but want to use this thread as my last preparation for it. You could say I really want this to work.. :)

    I've read through a lot of things and learned a lot from the community so far. I certainly hope I don't have to take the motor entirely apart. As far as I can tell, a lot of people have success with the motor running though, and primarily have chain issues if they don't have a jackshaft. I'll be using a 415 chain. Don't got a chain breaker but have a dremel and have read how to use that to "break" it.

    In the future I plan on buying thatsdax's titan 2 stroke motor. It's not to expensive and looks to be much more reliable and better built than a china girl.


    So I do believe my last two questions are this,
    1) If I don't have a jackshaft and I want to pedal the bike around without the motor (clutch disengaged and everything) Will I run into a lot of resistance and noise?

    2) I was reading about putting tape or zip ties where the spokes cross just above the HUB before putting on the sprocket. Should I do that? What's the purpose of it?
     
  2. Ibedayank

    Ibedayank New Member

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    if you want to peddle for any length of time just pull the motor chain off
    use masterlink in the chain
    do the clutch roller mod..or buy one from alfisherman
    with this its MUCH easier to pull in the clutch
     
  3. fishyfish777

    fishyfish777 New Member

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    I dunno. I never had any significant drag from the chain with the clutch pulled in nor was my clutch any hard to pull in. With a quality chain, those are usually things that you find out if you need them or not after you put the thing together - If I really wanted to pedal long distance, I'd use my lighter non-motorized bike anyway but for 2-3 miles the chain drag wasn't too big a deal. Also, if you buy any length of 10 foot chain it usually comes with a master-link, but they sometimes sell those at local hardware stores as well as half-links to make your chain as pre-tensioned as possible before you add a chain tensioner. Had no trouble finding bits of 41 roller chain, at least, which is what I personally used because the side to side space gives a bit of leeway.
     
    #3 fishyfish777, Dec 1, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  4. Rocky_Motor

    Rocky_Motor New Member

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    Sounds hopeful fishyfish. I just don't want the motor on when going around campus and preferably wouldn't have a terrible lot of trouble pedaling or an annoying chain rattle. I already bike the 1.5 miles up hill so I'm quite used to pedaling a lot already.

    I'm hoping that I'll have no reason to take the head off the motor. Reading the "what's inside your gt5" thread makes me a nervous nelly. I think I'm going to just give it a go though and possible take a look at it later.. Or never if I can atleast get 1000 miles out of it till upgrading to a new engine
     
  5. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    The zip-ty or tape thing is an assist device to help center the rag joint sprocket on the hub while you tighten the mounting bolts. They are placed directly on the hub between the hub and center hole of the sprocket. You still need to check it though both for centering and lateral play as you tighten it up.
    Remove the zip-tys or tape when done.
     
  6. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman New Member

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    #6 Al.Fisherman, Dec 1, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  7. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    When I first installed the motor on my bike I was really disappointed in the amount of drag and mechanical noise it added while pedaling. I found as I rode that the tension of the chain as applied by the tensioner had a lot of effect on how much noise and drag the motor chain caused. Too tight you get lots of noise and drag, too loose and you will get chain hop and might have it pop off on you or even jam up and break.
    I was lucky enough to be able to adjust my bike to run without the tensioner, once I got rid of it my bike pedaled like a bike again, no significant drag or noises from the motor chain. Not every bike can be rigged this way, sometimes the frame or other parts interfere with the chain if you loose the tensioner, sometimes it's not possible to properly position the motor and rear wheel to tension the chain properly without the tensioner also. However, if you can make it work without the tensioner you will not regret it. My chain isn't particularly tight and it has run without issue for about 800 miles so far without the tensioner.
    Best bet is probably to build her first with the tensioner, get used to it and then re-assess the possibility of loosing the tensioner after you have some experience with the bike. That way you will appreciate the improvement the most as well, like me. I was so thrilled the first time I rode without that damn tensioner!
    Some people have taken me to task for suggesting this, so I figured I should tell you to build with the tensioner first... If it is important that you limit the drag so you can pedal easily it might be something you want to try....
    Also, not sure if you have already, but make sure you run a good chain. Most of the kit chains are pretty poor quality, I like #41 industrial/farm chain, but there are other lighter weight upgrade chains that will work well also.
     
  8. Rocky_Motor

    Rocky_Motor New Member

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    Thanks for the tips guys! Tomorrow is the exciting day.

    I'd rather not take the head off since I don't have replacement parts for it... Do you feel it is imperative that I do so to inspect the cylinder?

    I could always take it off at a later date and replace the bolts and gasket for it.
     
  9. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    It's only imperative if there is something wrong in there! LOL
    Some have reported metal shavings and general garbage in their motors which gouge the head and cause a quick death to the motor, that you can't fix later. Then again, I didn't pull mine and it worked out alright, but when I pulled the head after about 500 miles I noticed it was kinda screwed up. It is mounted off center cause a stud hole in the head is off center, one side barely had any mating surface and was bound to fail prematurely. Simply fix, widen the hole a tad. At any rate, pulling the had is pretty simple if you decide to do it, as long as the studs stay put I guess.... The whole cylinder can stay in place and just the top (head) comes off.
    It's a crap shoot really, could work out fine, could be ripping it open soon saying "there's yer problem!" if you just fire it right up. I think most repeat and experienced builders like to at least peak inside the head before they run a new motor.....

    PS Side note on one of my Grubee's. When I pulled the head the piston was gouged up, but the cylinder was not. Some of the gouges in the piston went through the ring slots, so the rings and cylinder were obviously new. Seems like a motor that was fired up with debris in the head and died, returned and the top end was rebuilt and sold to me. (though it was in a sealed Grubee box)
     
  10. Ibedayank

    Ibedayank New Member

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    I have a gT5 and didn't pull it apart to check and see if it had anything floating around in it...I will let the pictures speak for me


    any more ????
     

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  11. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    Well, you could ask yourself a question; Do I feel lucky?....... Well do you?

    It is so easy to simply remove the cylinder head now and look for garbage metal bits that the factory may have left inside there when compared to rebuilding the top end if it fails prematurely because of said metal garbage.

    These engines have a long history of the various factories not doing proper quality control and cleanliness checks while performing final assembly.

    The choice is yours, choose wisely.
     
  12. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman New Member

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    Ummm well do you feel lucky. It's much easier to replace studs now then after you have already installed the engine.
     
    #12 Al.Fisherman, Dec 2, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  13. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    It seems the results are in.... LOL
    Looks like everyone thinks it's a good idea to take a peak under the head...
    Again, were just talking the head here, only the top part of the cylinder. (Sometimes people mistakenly assume the cylinder is all one piece) If you lift the actual cylinder up above the rings you a have a little more work to put it back together (carefully getting the cylinder back over the rings), if you just pull the head all you have is the four cap nuts to worry about.
    I had just sent an email to Don Grubee to see when the SuperRat and StarFire motors might be available in the USA (he said not till mid next year btw), I think I will shoot off another email to him now and let him know how common finding debris in his motors seems to be. I had given him some feedback on the CNS carb and other parts in his 2011 kits which he seems to have taken to heart from looking at what comes in the new kits...

    PS The reason I am interested in the StarFire, it is reputed to be made in the better of the two motor factories in China, and is also supposed to have a steel lined cylinder head. The SuperRat is supposed to have better bearings and seals than the regular GT-5, though not many of them have made it across the pond so far. Speculation of problems with the motor abound, but I think it is merely the CNS carb that is the issue with the SR. I got the CNS on my GT-5 and had all the same issues I read about with the SR, I was able to tune my CNS and get rid of the problems so I think the same could be done with a SuperRat (if you could find one).....
     
  14. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Ibedayank,
    Can you please tell me the manufacture date on your GT-5 and if the screws on the cover plate over the drive gear is flat head or phillips/flat screws?
    I reported the debris problem to Don Grube who had already been aware of this and is looking for feedback from me. I guess there are two assembly lines and he thinks one is not run up to standard and wants to try and straighten it out, but wants confirm which one is the problem by the the date and screw types on the motors....
     
  15. Ibedayank

    Ibedayank New Member

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    Night cruiser..
    here is a pic of the tag from the motor
     

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    #15 Ibedayank, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  16. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    How about the SCREWS???
    It is the screws that determin which assembly line....
    see pics
     

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    #16 nightcruiser, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  17. Ibedayank

    Ibedayank New Member

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    standard screws not phillips on the clutch cover mag cover and the other side holding the cover over the gears
    phillips on the screws holding the case halfs togather
     
  18. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Thanks a bunch, same batch as me....
     
  19. Ibedayank

    Ibedayank New Member

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    added pic of motor in the bike
     
  20. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Thanks again, you have a motor from the same batch as mine. I am providing feedback to Don Grube in hopes he can use it to improve the quality control at the factory. Hopefully future motors will leave the factory a bit cleaner and ready for the road....
     

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