New & need advice, questions answered etc...

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by nightcruiser, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and just starting to learn about motorized bikes. I have a feeling as the weather warms I will be putting a motor on "something", after reading and watching videos on the web I seem to have the bug, big time!
    I was actually shocked when I starting searching the web for motor kits, there are so many out there that seem so similar, but as I research I find there are a lot of differences. This leaves me with a LOT of questions, I hope you don't mind if I ask them here....
    Engine selection:
    I see 2-stroke engines are most popular, and I would probably decide to go with a 2-stroke myself.
    Among 2-strokes I find two common sizes, the 48cc and the 66/80cc models. I understand the 66/80cc is the difference between the manufacturers method and the US method of calculation. These engines are 66cc by US standard calculation.
    What I don't understand is why the 48cc engines and the 66/80cc engines are both rated at roughly the same horsepower? I wonder if the smaller engines could really produce the same power as the larger engines? The price is similar for both units, so on one hand it seems a simple choice to just take the bigger one, cause you can. On the other hand, some states have laws that limit the cc and may treat engines under 50cc differently than above 50cc. With this in mind, if the hp is the same or close, it seems a no brainer to choose the SMALLER engine! I am still left wondering about the actual power produced by the 48cc engines VS the 66/80cc engines, do they compare? Maybe you guys with experience can help me out with this....
    This dilemma has me torn as to what size 2-stroke to choose... I guess it boils down to the state(s) you plan to ride in and how they word their laws. I will be riding the bike in IL, HI, and maybe FL, OR and CA. I see a lot of state reference HP in their laws, others reference engine cc, this makes the whole thing more confusing for me...
    Then there is QUALITY.... I see a lot of CHINA engines, I read about JAPAN engines but never really see noted where the different engines are made. I know the Italian engines are the top notch, but I will have to get way further into this before I spring for one of them! Unfortunately I can not find any gas engines that are made in the USA. I would be interested in a made in USA engine if available, since its not I would prefer to get an engine made in Japan than China. I want something that can be repaired, rebuilt, if possible, so I would like to buy a unit that has replacement parts available ideally. If I could find a high quality 48cc engine that holds it's own against the 66/80cc cause of its quality that is what I think I am after. Unfortunately I can't tell the good from the bad (yet), maybe you guys could point me in the right direction and fill me in on what engines are made where, which are reputed for best quality and power etc. That would be a huge help to me.
    Finally, there is the rest of the kit, I know the quality can vary on these other parts, is there any dealer that is reputed to provide better quality accessories than others?
    I have a million more questions, but I think that is enough to get me started, for now... LOL
    I have 2 vintage Specialized mountain bikes in cherry condition, but I am reluctant to mod them cause they are both special to me just the way they are. I am thinking I would prefer a much more laid back cruiser style bike for the motor anyway, so I will probably end up building something new or building something up from the ashes of somebody's garage sale junk! Since I have never built a cruiser style bike I will probably have a ton of questions about that too.....
    Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read my message and/or reply.....
     
  2. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    most of the inframe 2 strokes are chinese. you can get some japanese motors, but they tend to be rear mount friction drives.

    the 48 vs 66cc argument tends to be similar speeds on flats, but better hill climbing on the 66cc. as you mentioned some states limit your size options, some even lower then below 50cc, theres all sorts of grey areas with these things in most states.

    as far as brands you'll get mixed reviews of everything except the higher end models for the most part, i have a grubee skyhawk GT-5 and i'm satisfied with it, but if i ask another member here he tells me grubees are awful and this other no name brand is better.

    i haven't used another brand so i can't say for sure, but generally reviews are mixed.
     
  3. dmb

    dmb Active Member

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    i'd say you dont want the last ford or gm that rolls out at 4;30 friday. i'd think the same for china, or the alum. swept off the floor instead of ingots in the smelt.and i've seen some of that weird stuff at high tech edelbrocks foundry and they got pretty nice stuff. cant imagine what happens in slave driven china. guess the luck of the draw. dennis
     
  4. Nougat

    Nougat New Member

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    The in frame two strokes are commonly known as "Happy Time" engines,or HT. All of the kits are roughly the same quality, which is "sometimes dodgy." you'll want to choose a vendor that offers a decent warranty and is responsive.

    The 48 and 66 motors have the same bottom end, they just have different piston and jug. Since the actual design is for 48cc, it's rumored that those will run better, and that the 66s have more vibration troubles, that the 48s will rev higher because of this. Hard to substantiate that, but it's reasonable.
     
  5. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Thanks for the info guys... It seems from what I am reading the only source for the 2-stroke engines is China? That kinda sucks. I have issues with China starting with the fact that they produce a lot of crap that falls apart, that on side of the geopolitical issues I have with China. Well, let me just say I don't shop at WalMart, and have a big problem with our national debt to China...
    I could have sworn that I read somewhere about Japanese 2-strokes engines, if they do exist and anyone knows a source please let me know (but I am not interested in a rear mount engine). Aside from that (finding a non Chinese made 2-stroke), can anyone recommend a reputable dealer that I can buy a made in china kit from that will take care of me if I get a lemon?
    Also, even though these are all made in China 2-strokes, I have heard there are important differences. Like some of them have real bearings and others just bushings, sounds like a pretty big deal to me! I would like to learn how to tell a well made Chinese engine from the crap one, so I can be sure to get one of the better ones.
    If it does boil down to China for the engine I am wondering if these engines can be repaired? Are replacement parts available for them? Are there certain models that have replacement parts available and others not? I would like to try and make a wise choice when I buy so I wont get a unit that leaves me screwed down the road with a bad part and no replacement available.
    I guess at this point it boils down to me looking for a reputable dealer that can sell me a good kit (and will stand behind it if there is a problem), and hopefully stocks parts for the engines they sell. I would be interested to hear from the forum where you guys buy your stuff, and general good and bad experiences with suppliers so I can try to go with a good one...
    Thanks again for all your replies....
     
    #5 nightcruiser, Mar 27, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  6. Cogswelln

    Cogswelln New Member

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    ive used a flying horse and a grubee gt-5 66cc/80cc motor and both were awesome
     
  7. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Searching for those models I came across a retailer selling them that also had for sale what looked like all the parts for the engine, this is the first time I have run across that. That is exactly what I wanted to see before I buy, a list of parts I can buy for a rebuild...
    I haven't decided for sure where I will buy from, funny thing, I am so accustomed to ignoring banner ads that I neglected to see all of the kit retailers ads on the sides of this forum! LOL So I've got some clicking to do and hopefully I will be able to find a full service retailer that also supports this forum to buy from....
     
  8. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    there are inframe 2 strokes made in italy called morinis, thing is you can have 4-5 chinese kits for the price of 1 morini, and you don't get a full kit+ you have to do tons of custom fabrications, simply put it's not a beginners motor.

    there are tons of replacement parts for essentially all brands as most of these motors are pretty much the same. but for the most common brand i'd say grubee.

    as far as warranties, iv'e never bought motors from either of these sites, but bikeberry seems to offer a pretty good warranty once you complain here on the forums from what iv'e seen.

    the other site is piratecycles1.com i haven't bought a motor kit from them, but small parts i have and their customer service was great for me, so i'd be willing to give them a try.

    good luck.
     
  9. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback, bikeberry is the one that caught my eye, glad to hear positive feedback about them. Leaning heavily in that direction.
    Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to read or reply to my thread here....
     
  10. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    well i don't want to mislead you so just to make sure we're on the same page, from what iv'e seen from other users on the forum, bikeberry gave the people a hassle at first, then after people posted on the forums swooped in to save the day, and themselves.

    so assuming something goes wrong, they kinda wanna brush it off, if you make a big deal about it on the forums bikeberry mans up to protect it's image.

    so basically if you're lucky things will be just fine. if you're not make a big deal out of it here and bikeberry will make good on its advertised warranty.

    and heres a thread for you to read up on. http://motorbicycling.com/f3/find-dealer-review-1730-17.html
     
  11. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    Thanks for that link and I will keep what you said in mind. I have realized after doing a lot more reading that it would be best for me to wait to buy the kit until warm weather is officially here, so I can assemble/test/break-in the kit right away, while I still have warrantee etc. It seems it would be foolish to buy a kit and sit on it for any amount of time, so I have a bit more time to read and feel out the situation.
    Becoming more familiar with the motor choices, I had "thought" I had made the decision on what I would buy. Grubee seemed to be a pretty popular motor so I was going to go with the newest and bestest GT5-Super Rat engine, then I got to reading... Seems there are a lot of bogging issues with it and the new improved carb might be more of a problem than an improvement? I know this is a pretty new engine and carb so I will watch the forum for a while and if I don't see these problems getting worked out I will probably go with the regular GT5 package to avoid the hassle. The Super Rat engine seems to have all the specs and features but if you can't get the thing to run right what is it worth? I'm not into spending an extra $50 just to buy myself problems!
    Maybe some time will allow these issues to be resolved, watching the forum feedback for the next month or so should lead me to the proper decision on which kit to buy from which vendor....
    Thanks again for the feedback....
     
  12. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    what i think the real problem with the new carb is, is that the screw that we use to tighten it up at the intake is garbage, i went to home depot, bought some m5 screws and the proper nut and was able to torque it down real tight, before it was "kinda" tight. the other thing is people probably don't have it set quite right.

    it seemed to work fine for me, although i admittedly don't have anything to compare it too as it was my first motor and most likely my last inframe motor because honestly this has been a nightmare.

    the idea of friction drive doesn't thrill me, but the simplicity of it does, i'm looking into it now, most likely will buy a kit from thatsdax.

    while most seem to have a pretty easy time with in frames this has been a living **** of a build for me and i'm done with it.
     

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