Motorized vs. Electric

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by tmhays, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. tmhays

    tmhays New Member

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    What are the preferences in gas motor vs electric? What is the power difference like?
     
  2. rustycase

    rustycase Gutter Rider

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    IMO, petro provides more power to the user than employing the process of converting sol to stored energy and eventually, electron flow.

    Basically, that's why we use it, now.

    Good thing for the whales!
    rc
     
  3. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    Speaking just about the motor, there is no comparison and why modern rail locomotives use them. An electric motor has a high output and flat torque curve across the rpm band from start-up. It can eliminate much of the need for gearing needed in ICE engines.

    Electrical storage for mobile applications is another matter and the main obstacles currently in the way, overcoming weight and cost.
     
  4. rustycase

    rustycase Gutter Rider

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    Whew!

    STRONG, astute observation HV !

    Gosh, if we could all have the subsidy the railroads and their engine builders enjoy, we'd be in like Flint, wouldn't we???

    :)
    rc
     
  5. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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    I like both....hence...both

    [​IMG]
     
  6. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    Sure, and we can add the multiple Chrysler and GM bailouts, massive infrastructure investment for building and maintaining the interstate highway system and the expenditures for military adventures securing the flow of oil abroad.

    But on topic since the OP asked:

    I mentioned the instant torque and power band characteristics of electric motors, not to mention they are almost noiseless.
    Storage, IE: cost and weight are issues to overcome to produce range.

    For fun read the 2011 Death Race thread here, won by a Ebike, lol.
     
  7. Venice Motor Bikes

    Venice Motor Bikes Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles

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    I concur that electrics can be more powerful; but their problem is that they are at their strongest from the first second you go & they grudually loose power as you go.

    The Death Race would have ended much differenty had it been a much longer race.

    I was heavily into R/C car racing for many years; The nitro car 'A' main races are a one hour long race; the electric 'A' mains were only five minutes long!

    Until the battery technology gets better, the electric vehicles won't be able to compete with the gas vehicles for long distance.
     
  8. biknut

    biknut Active Member

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    I've got the electric problem solved. Just get a battery the size of a house, and pull it around on a trailer behind you.
     
  9. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Well-Known Member

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    Before running gas engines, I ran 72 vdc thru a front electric hub. Low end was good, but top speed was only 27 mph. Sadly, this was NOT fast enough to ride in traffic, and charging 80 lbs of batteries daily was labor-intense. So was removing & reinstalling the batteries AND carrying the bike and batteries up two flights of stairs.

    My gas-powered commuter speeds to 40 mph+xct2

    fills up every eight days and keeps up with traffic. Upon arriving home, I push the bike up two flights of stairs. It is safe from the weather and thieves.

    It is EXACTLY what I was looking for.dance1
     
  10. gobigkahuna

    gobigkahuna New Member

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    Stupid question: How does the law view electric powered bicycles, the same as gas powered? One of the things I miss with my powered bike is that I can't (legally) ride on bike paths any more. Is it the same for electrically powered bikes?
     
  11. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    Not stupid at all, rather one that is producing some contested discussion in legal forums. Floating around out there is the inclusion of E vehicles in a federal mandate for states vehicle code compliance.

    As to bike paths, where I live they are many, used heavily by bikers and walking people as well, and are posted 'no motor vehicles allowed'.
    Gas bikes will raise issues, even an EHO35 with additional muffling, and today everyone carries a cell phone and are not shy about making a call. I know. On a practical level though, the stealth of Ebikes doesn't seem to raise the same degree of ire.
     
  12. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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    an ebike under 750 watts is a "Bicycle" in California.
    a gas bike of 49cc or less is still a "bicycle" on the street...but banned from bike trails and pedestrian walk ways.
    So while in those areas...I run electric...when headed off on streets..I run gas.
    THAT is the reason for a trybrid bicycle.
    as well redundant propulsion allows for great range without fear of being stranded. (baring catastrophic wheel or frame failure)


    [​IMG]
     
  13. gobigkahuna

    gobigkahuna New Member

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    I did a bit of homework and it appears that in the US a bicycle with an electric motor of less than 750 watts and capable of speeds less than 20 mph on flat terrain is categorized as a "slow speed electric bicycle". HR 727 covers it if you want to look it up (I tried to attach a copy but it was too big). From that point, state law varies from state to state. I searched the North Carolina DMV website and google but didn't find anything definitive on the subject so I'm going to assume the NC law follows US law and that a "slow speed electric bicycle" is not included with mopeds and scooters... unless someone else can dig up something more definitive.
     
  14. biknut

    biknut Active Member

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    In my opinion an eBike with less than 750w would be legal to ride on any trail built with federal money, unless a local municipality or state has passed an ordinance against it. However passing such a law after the fact may require the state or municipality to refund some money back to the fed.

    These federal laws about eBikes cover other kinds of electric vehicles too. Like Rascals, and Segway's. Here in downtown Dallas there's a place that sells guided tours using Segway's. The tour guide started taking the groups on the Katy trail. The city of Dallas told them they would have to stop riding the the trail because it's just for joggers, and bicycles. The tour operator went to city hall and informed the city that federal law allows vehicles such as Segways to operate on trails funded with federal dollars. The city backed down.
     
  15. gobigkahuna

    gobigkahuna New Member

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    Here's a copy / paste of HR 727 which defines what a "Low-Speed Electric Bicycle" is. If anyone has any further documentation, especially for North Carolina, I'd love to see it.

     
  16. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Active Member

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    You are far less likely to get busted on an ebike on a multi-use trail than a gas powered bike. Electric assist rarely matches gas assist in range, but they have some big advantages. You can keep them inside your house/office/dorm. You can haul an ebike inside your SUV or hatchback without smelling fuel. An ebike stays cleaner and is less messy to own.
     
  17. gobigkahuna

    gobigkahuna New Member

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    A ha! I just found a copy of Section 2 for the above HR 727 and it's IMO the most important part!

    Federal Law trumps State Law, so this should mean, if I'm reading it correctly, that a Low Speed Electric Bicycle should not have the same requirements as a moped, scooter or motorcycle.

    Edit: Just found this thread ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1518&start=0 ) which seems to indicate that they came to the same conclusion.
     
    #17 gobigkahuna, Jun 15, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  18. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    I wonder how relevant CPSC definitions are and if they are outside the purview of homemade kit bikes? The CPSC oversees end user safety on sale and over-site of manufacturers but defers to individual state DOTs for usage legislation.

    Also, this is interesting:
    http://motorbicycling.com/f17/electric-bicycle-moped-30812.html
     
  19. tallcrown

    tallcrown New Member

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    I was on YouTube and saw a trailer that a guy had made with small solar panels mounted. Looked like a smooth system.
    What in anyones opiinion is the best and most affordable system (motor) to put on a bike for long trips, just to assist on hills?
     
  20. biknut

    biknut Active Member

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    A lot of people fall for the "no motor vehicles allowed" mess. What's a motor vehicle defined as in your state is the question. A lot of people just assume if it has a motor, it must be a motor vehicle. Not so fast. In Texas and some other states, a motor vehicle has to be self propelled to be considered a motor vehicle. That lets out most China Girl's.

    I try not to draw attention when riding city trails, but if it should happen that I get a citation for riding one, I'll be challanging that ticket in a heart beat.

    They'll need to post the trail "No motor bicycles" to get my attention. No motor vehicles just means I can't drive my work truck down the trail.
     

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