KC's new 4-stroke Jackshaft base

GoldenMotor.com

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
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Phoenix,AZ
So far so good, my first working proof of concept works great mechanically under power.

This new base is designed for the 49cc HS 142F 4-stroke engine and NEW Grubee 4G belt drive transfer case to use it as a direct drive or a jackshafted shifter.

The new 4G case fully encloses the clutch and has the freewheel bearing on the big pulley and not the output sprocket so as a bonus it pedals with the engine off with virtually no gas power JS drive train drag through all the gears like the normal pedal bike except for the added weight of course.

The new 4G however is an inch wider so no jackshaft base matched it so I made my own.





The important things to note with my right bearing support is it has a second vertical support that pulls it in, and the bearing collar is on the inside with a shaft collar against it to keep the coupling together and the bearing in place and it gets rid of the 2 left side sprockets and chain, and hence their 'move the motor' adjustment.

That was the easy part, the hard part was accounting for the output so close to the engine on the right side and not have to try and raise the whole mount to tighten it.





The trick was my base accounting for a small adjustable tensioner sprocket (plastic gear with steel bearing mount) to route the chain and account for any chain 'stretch' that needs doing so in essence once the engine mount is in place that is the only adjustment to deal with and it's easy to do.

As suspected the .7 gear reduction I lost going with a direct shaft to the right side with every other ratio the same makes it a bit of a dog off the line but I have a 90T freewheel on its way to make it just a .2 loss and which means a .2 overdrive gain on the 38 MPH original gearing and the pedaling still matches the engine RPM better.

More later but we already have the covers on and pretty confident we can put the right side chain guard on with a couple of snips as well ;-}
 
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BigBlue

Member
Nov 29, 2011
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California
Looks really good and well thought out. Keep us informed on the durability. I'd like to know how long the freewheeling bearing on the large pulley holds up.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
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Phoenix,AZ
So the jack shaft has a slip coupler in the center?
Yes.
The Lovejoy steel couplers are the only thing I could find to connect a 15mm shaft to a 16mm shaft and the 'spider' material between the jaws provides a little cush for when you downshift too low while coasting fast at idle, like up to a red light, but the light changes so you hit the gas and it revs up to 6500 RPM before power hits the back wheels freewheel.

It doesn't matter what the shift system is, you have to beware of that.

That is not what caused the catastrophic failure yesterday after ~25 miles of really hard test riding.

The single set screw in the non-keyed retaining collar came loose which allowed the 3-piece coupler to separate.



Rmmmmmmmmmm.... BANG! tinkle tinkle tinkle as parts hit the pavement.

It took out one of the paws on the 15mm coupler which figures as that was the hardest to find and I didn't buy two to start with like I did the 16's.
No biggie, my local Granger will have two in stock for me as soon as late this afternoon.

I think a keyed 16mm coupler with 2 set screws will fix that but otherwise other than being geared way too high (have a 90T 4G flywheel on the way for that) it ran like a banshee, very smooth and quite and really a pleasure to ride and even with that failure it didn't phase my bearing mount or the idler sprocket which if anything I thought would fail first.

I wonder how long the idler sprocket will last.
I sprung for a ball bearing idler sprocket that mounts solid to the base with a grove for adjustment so just the plastic gear piece spins and it did great under extensive pedal testing which actually puts force on it so I don't see any problem handling the motor power return side.

I have another build with this system on deck, a soft tail of all things, so I will perfect the base a bit more this time now that I know exactly where everything has to go and enough 'proof of concept' to see it will indeed work for my needs ;-}
 

BigBlue

Member
Nov 29, 2011
781
0
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California
Might want to put some thread lock or bearing lock on the set screws and keys.

Just my 2 cents - looking good.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
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Left coast
Looks really good and well thought out. Keep us informed on the durability. I'd like to know how long the freewheeling bearing on the large pulley holds up.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
+1
I am also interested in durability of the freewheel bearing.

Best
rc
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
This is the finished bike with my straight through jackshaft design.





As suspected the gearing was just too high for the 80T 4G so I ordered a 100T pulley, belt and larger cover and guess what?
The new 4G 80T is NOT, I repeat IS NOT compatible with any other 4G's.

The newest 4G 80T that ships with the gabike.net 4-stroke kit has the freewheel bearing inside the 80T pulley and a fixed output sprocket, everything else has a standard pulley and freewheel sprocket.

The 4G shaft that holds these parts are different and not interchangeable.

Scratch 1 80T 4G with the sprocket nut shaft cut off, pulleys, belts and covers for both a 90T and a 100T I can't use.

I finally found the 100T 4G's for sale and bought 2 as I have another build like this on deck right now.

The problem was the 4G shaft is different for the freewheel sprocket!
I thought I measured it at 11mm but it's more like 10.5mm, what a funky frigg'n size.

I had bought coupling parts for the 15mm 4G shaft and 16mm JS but the 100T with 10.5mm meant I had to scramble to find another coupling half.

I bought a couple 11's and spiders and spent a fortune to overnight them from Granger and as mentioned it was just sloppy enough to have to shim the shaft with a single wrap of beer can but it works.

The 7-speed derailleur idler sprocket did prove to be too weak for pedal only power, especially since there is no freewheel in the pedal system until you get to the clutch bell (hence why I like the 80T design better) but my base design does allow for using a stock kits bearing idler for that 90° chain turn.







We got maybe 5 miles on it Friday before we called it a weekend so today will be torture testing it all day in this brutal 'Phoenix Spring' weather hehehe ;-}
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
Welcome to the world of the Grubee 4G.....thought you'ld never get here :D

Have fun!
I'm here Scotto, I have been e-mailing back and forth with Don Grube that last couple of weeks about his 4G design incompatibility and odd output shafts.

They do production runs when they have orders for 1000 units which has usually been about a year.
It is the ideal time for some more improvements to the 2014 Ver 4G design before they go into production and Don likes my ideas ;-}

My base design improvements from the first builds lessons are underway now, it just sucks I have no CAD programs to just layout a production drawing.
Besides no skills with drafting since high school or the time to learn yet another craft, it is slow going to get anything done.
 
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BigBlue

Member
Nov 29, 2011
781
0
16
California
I'm here Scotto, I have been e-mailing back and forth with Don Grube that last couple of weeks about his 4G design incompatibility and odd output shafts.

They do production runs when they have orders for 1000 units which has usually been about a year.
It is the ideal time for some more improvements to the 2014 Ver 4G design before they go into production and Don likes my ideas ;-}

My base design improvements from the first builds lessons are underway now, it just sucks I have no CAD programs to just layout a production drawing.
Besides no skills with drafting since high school or the time to learn yet another craft, it is slow going to get anything done.
No excuse now! Here's a free 2d CAD program that was designed for use by NASA:

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/free2d/

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 

locutus_1

New Member
Oct 31, 2010
196
0
0
california
So far so good, my first working proof of concept works great mechanically under power.

This new base is designed for the 49cc HS 142F 4-stroke engine and NEW Grubee 4G belt drive transfer case to use it as a direct drive or a jackshafted shifter.

The new 4G case fully encloses the clutch and has the freewheel bearing on the big pulley and not the output sprocket so as a bonus it pedals with the engine off with virtually no gas power JS drive train drag through all the gears like the normal pedal bike except for the added weight of course.

The new 4G however is an inch wider so no jackshaft base matched it so I made my own.





The important things to note with my right bearing support is it has a second vertical support that pulls it in, and the bearing collar is on the inside with a shaft collar against it to keep the coupling together and the bearing in place and it gets rid of the 2 left side sprockets and chain, and hence their 'move the motor' adjustment.

That was the easy part, the hard part was accounting for the output so close to the engine on the right side and not have to try and raise the whole mount to tighten it.





The trick was my base accounting for a small adjustable tensioner sprocket (plastic gear with steel bearing mount) to route the chain and account for any chain 'stretch' that needs doing so in essence once the engine mount is in place that is the only adjustment to deal with and it's easy to do.

As suspected the .7 gear reduction I lost going with a direct shaft to the right side with every other ratio the same makes it a bit of a dog off the line but I have a 90T freewheel on its way to make it just a .2 loss and which means a .2 overdrive gain on the 38 MPH original gearing and the pedaling still matches the engine RPM better.

More later but we already have the covers on and pretty confident we can put the right side chain guard on with a couple of snips as well ;-}
can you give us a parts list..??? where to buy how much etc.. id like to do this to mine
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
can you give us a parts list..??? where to buy how much etc.. id like to do this to mine
The parts to do this properly don't exist yet.
I am working with Don Grube on a new 4G variant with a 17T/100TFW freewheel belt drive system with an output shaft long enough to the reach the right side of the bike with a 9T sprocket that will mount on a new base with a support for a right side carrier bearing.

From there a SickBikesParts bottom bracket freewheel pedal system is added.

Doubtful everything will be in place to buy this in 2014.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
We know it Jerry. Gears change everything ;-}

Speaking of which, did you or your buddy or whoever it was get a 3-speed shimano to auto-shift?
If so drop me contact E-mail from mt web site with some info please as I have a new customer looking for just such a thing.
 

WAYAFRO

New Member
Aug 19, 2014
13
0
0
mn, usa
wow so glad you did this I just bought the jackshaft kit and the HD freewheel from SBP. And a decent hard tail MB with disk brakes. Looking for the right priced and compatible engine kit. I want the 4g but haven't seen anybody ells put all these components together. So does the SBP jackshaft not bolt directly to the 4g, or does it?

Also where is the best place to buy the engine kit? BlowbyU? (is the Honda he sells really worth $300+ more, meaning is it really that much more quieter? quiet is really important to me)

O and how many gears do you have and how fast can it go?
 
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