I need some input on this Frakenstein bike project

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by EnergyUpdaters.com, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. EnergyUpdaters.com

    EnergyUpdaters.com New Member

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    Ok so I have been put together around 40 or so Motorized Bikes and I am starting to see a trend that in califorinia for what ever reason CARB decided that the 2cycle engines are no good. So I got into looking at Ebikes and the thing I noticed was, everyone had troubles with finding a good battery to get you far and if you did find one it is expensive. So I came up with a plan

    Ok well have you seen those grey hound 2.5 HP engines from harbor freight? well what if you hooked up a car alternator to it and the used the power from that alternator to power a hub motor? would that work? has any body tried this? Califorina laws say that the motor powering the bike can be no bigger then 2HP, but the motor would only act as a power supply for the 500w or 1000w hub motor. Yea Yea Yea I know most of you will say why would you do all that frankenstein stuff with two motors and all but little do most people dont know is that most Trains use this set up to go from A to Z. the have big deisel motors that power electric hubs. Imagine all the cool upsides up electric like no chain and all the good stuff of gas like no battery's!!!!! well give me your input please!!!

    here is a picture of the motor alternator setup! scroll down to the bottom Green-Trust -- Product Order Page
     
  2. Venice Motor Bikes

    Venice Motor Bikes Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles

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    Build it, & tell us how it works out!! (^)
     
  3. 42blue15

    42blue15 New Member

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    It has been suggested before, by myself and at least a couple other people in the last couple years. I don't know that anybody (around here) has done it though.

    One problem I found was that it would be fairly expensive, as you'd need both a gas engine and a motor+generator setup. A decent brand-name engine is going to cost at least $300 or so for a 4-stroke, and (at the time) I priced a 500W hub motor + generator at around $500. Car alternators aren't that expensive, but I don't know that they'd work easily, using a regulator and all. I was looking at DC generators.

    It would be fairly simple--you wouldn't need a (electric motor) controller at all, unless you also had batteries to run the electric motor from. I liked the idea because I figured the electric portion of the drivetrain would provide a CVT-style action, rather like a diesel-electric locomotive. The main complaint I have with my first (Golden Eagle) bike is that it is lousy at climbing any kind of hill.

    If the dual-engine setup would be any more California-legal than a plain gas engine I don't know. Both EPA and CARB regulations cover ALL engines, and usually treat vehicle engines different from utility engines. At the least you would want to use a CARB-legal engine, and even then it still may not save you.
    ~
     
  4. EnergyUpdaters.com

    EnergyUpdaters.com New Member

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  5. Venice Motor Bikes

    Venice Motor Bikes Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles

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    It honestly sounds like it will be a very heavy bike! :(
     
  6. professor

    professor New Member

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    I did post some stuff about my gas/electric bike on the other forum and thought I would wait to post it here until it was totally done.
    Last year I began experiments with a HF79 powering a Ford alternator (directly with NO regulator) and running a 12v battery to power the field circuit - it worked quite well driving a 250 watt scooter motor.
    BUT I could not figure out how to charge the battery (off the alternator) with the wildly varying voltage (up to 50 volts). Thus, I decided to make a new In Frame bike, this time using the HF above a Delco alt. with a 24volt reguator installed ( reg. is from a vendor on E-bay) and twin 12 volt batteries, making a real E-bike but with on-board generation.

    Why go thru all this effort? Because New York has passed an E-bike bill (yet needs governor's signature) but gas bikes still will be non-legal. The new law says nothing about on-board generation.
    I used an old mountain bike and streched the frame to accomidate the engine and stuff. I blew the regulator (had the alt. wired wrong) and am awaiting a new one. Did ride around some before I blew it- the 450w motor gets me up to around 15 mph (fine for me) and the voltage at cruise is 27, it dips down to 23v taking off but rises right up once the load of accelerating is done.
    I am going to try an older SI10 Delco that on bench testing gave about one more volt at the (drill motor) test rpm of 2200. This is the old style metal fan unit rather than the 96 amp plastic fan job I have been using. I think the older (bigger diameter) Delco is more efficient at the low speed I am using it at (one to one ratio with the HF.
    By the way- the bike weighs just under 110 lbs. but handles nice.
     
  7. professor

    professor New Member

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    Also- I looked at the green link you posted and they are using the older SI10 Delco and are driving it over one to one ratio, which leads me to think I am right about the efficiency at low speed with that unit being better.
    I have been driving the newer (higher powered) Delco one to one and the HF works pretty hard at driving it. With a bigger 4 inch pulley on the HF - it would start, run up and die. I was going nuts for hours, finally took off the belt and the engine ran perfect - the alternator was self exciting and killing the engine with the load. Thus the same size pulley on both the engine and alt. now.
    Oh, the vendor on ebay is Tridiode - just punch in Delco 24 v regulator.
    NOTE- I would NEVER do any of this if gas power was legal here!

    OH- the HF (like all new engines) was very lean, I opened the main jet about three thousandths and it is real nice. Choke can come off right away, instead of a while later.
     
  8. EnergyUpdaters.com

    EnergyUpdaters.com New Member

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    Hey guys thanks for finding some interest in this thread, I thought I was the only crazy one! :) So I have great news. Today I found something that will work perfect for a power source for the electric motor! - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices its a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Generator currently in the sale ad that was sent to my home for only $109.99 now that's cheap and it also would act as a portable generator when you go on a road trip! This weighs about 40pounds and I am not sure how you can get it to ride on the bike or maybe a small trailer that could be pulled and also act as a storage compartment? Or something like a tricycle and place the generator in the basket between the two back wheels! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schwinn-Meridian-Tricycle/5679542 Imagine all the types of electric motors you could use to turn the wheels like a swamp cooler motor that you can buy new for like $70.00! this setup would cost like under 200.00! for a half gas ebike. if this dont sound amazing I don't know what will.
     
    #8 EnergyUpdaters.com, Mar 2, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  9. professor

    professor New Member

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    With that generator you need a 110 volt drive motor for the bike.
     
  10. EnergyUpdaters.com

    EnergyUpdaters.com New Member

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    like a swamp cooler motor right? I know swamp cooler motors can have different speeds like Off low, med, high.
     
  11. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Active Member

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    Wow - Cali allows you to build a pretty powerful e-bike at 2 hp (1500 watts!).
    Texas limits us to 750 watts to stay street legal.
    You will not be happy with automotive alternators or starter motors.
    Unless you have a background in electrical maintenance, I would get a kit.
    You can start out with the cheaper, lower performing lead acid batteries to see if the ebike is for you. Wait until you have some experience before spending that take home pay on ping batteries.
     
  12. professor

    professor New Member

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    Around here, swamp coolers are as rare as racing cows.
     
  13. jimrandolph

    jimrandolph New Member

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    I have an Idea you mite try, it worked for me. I live on a steep mountain, go camping a lot pulling a trailer with about 300lb. of fishing, and camping gear. My bike has a one speed gas engine, and doesn't have enough power to pull the mountain, so I got an electric front hub, and 2 12V batts, a one wire alternater (60amp) from autozone, built a frame over the front wheel, mounted the alternator to it. When I'm goin down the road, I flip the alternator down on the wheel to charge the batts. I used it for 3 years, with NO problems.
    Jim

     
  14. the new ausped

    the new ausped New Member

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    if you rigged it up just like he said it would be likea perma-turbo lol
     

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