Has any one else run across this one?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by tsmra, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. tsmra

    tsmra New Member

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    The backing plates for the rag joint all over lapped by 1/8 to 1/4 inch each. I cut 2 of the joints and the 3rd joint fell into place. That is until it was assembly time. that 3rd joint overlapped again so I just followed the advice given by the seller and preyed the apart till it lay flat and went about tighten down the nuts. Well there was quite a high spot on the sprocket and as it turned out it was right over that 3rd joint.
    As it turns out the whole thing has to come apart any way because there is a clearance issue with chain and tire ( flat sprocket ) so I was thinking of putting an extra piece of rubber between the out side rag joint and the sprocket. Also think I will order a Manic Mechanic sprocket adaptor latter this week.
    Couple of pics to help explain.
     

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    #1 tsmra, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  2. Reel Adventure

    Reel Adventure New Member

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    ya, junk that rag crap and go with manic mechanic setup. I am ordering 2 of his sprocket setups this week.
     
  3. Creative Engineering

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    Hey guys,

    The rubber mount is a bit of a hassle to install. Been there...done that! I don't like fiddling around with "ought nots"...meaning, ought not to have been done in the first place.

    In terms of being fairly universal...the rubber mount wasn't, entirely, a bad idea. With enough messin' around: it is, of course, usable.

    From an engineering standpoint I looked at it this way:

    1) The engine is driving the rear wheel via the spokes on 1/2 of the wheel. Bad idea!

    2) Based on the fixed location of the sprocket, there is little opportunity to properly align the chain with the engine. Some of the universal application criteria just became an installers nightmare!

    3) Maintaining proper concentricity of the sprocket will require periodic adjustments, wheel replacement. Who needs the hassle!

    The sprocket adapter addresses all of these problems, and eliminates them for good.

    Jim
     
  4. Retmachinist

    Retmachinist New Member

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    Well said Jim! I will be ordering a couple more as soon as the wheels get here so I can get them measured.

    John
     
  5. Creative Engineering

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    Thank you John! Thank you tsmra & Reel Adventure!

    I really appreciate your support of my shop. It means a lot to me!

    Jim
     
  6. stv1jzgte

    stv1jzgte New Member

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    Dude scrap it and start again either with creative's hub adapter or start again with a new rag joint do not cut it! if they overlap pry it with a screwdriver. Also there is no need for the metal 3 peice on the other side of the sprocket as the sprocket does this job. I did the same but found that the 2 piece and the 3 peice go over each other inside the hub then the rubber pieces then the sprocket.
     
  7. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Out of 30 or so sprocket upgrades I had six with that issue. They happened to be the ones that came with BGF $12 36t sprockets so maybe no surprise.

    It only takes a minute to get plates seated by levering them apart with screwdriver. Once flat tighten nuts equally so edges don' t pop up. Not a problem for me at all. I had much more difficulty with clamshell mounts and coaster brake installs. I also believe the rag joint type absorb shock and extend spoke life more.

    The first one took a few minutes longer but the rest went quickly now that I know.

    BTW where did you get those? How much and what type?
     
    #7 xlite, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  8. Creative Engineering

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    xlite,

    Obviously you haven't had the opportunity to install one of my sprocket adapters.

    I realize there are other clamshell type adapters available. I haven't tried one, so as far as I know you may be right regarding those products.

    My adapter was designed for a bike that I was building for myself, that had a coaster brake hub. It was designed to drive the hub, not the spokes. It is not a hassle to install.

    The idea that the rag joint absorbs shock and therefore saves the spokes is nice in theory, but doesn't hold water.

    Leaving the theories aside, I don't think that anyone can argue whether or not it is a good idea to drive the entire hub.

    Jim
     
  9. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Driving the hub sounded better in theory, :) but not practice in my case. Only two other bikes that ever came back with broken spokes happened to be clamshell. Those riders were pretty heavy which maybe be a factor. And I did have broken spokes myself recently with rag joint so maybe it was coiincidence.

    Installation took longer but that may be because I'm getting so good at slapping on those el cheapo donuts. The real issues arose when they changed to a bike with different size hub. The clamshell did not fit. And another fellow went through several bikes before he found one that was adaptable because of hub shape, not just size.

    Personally it would not work for me either because I also try many different bike models and there's a cost issue. Your product is very cool looking and I know several people who are very happy with it. IMO it depends on what people are looking to get out of these HTs.
     
  10. tsmra

    tsmra New Member

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    It was part of the 66CC kit I ordered. I'll refrain from stating where the kit came from. Don't want to start a bash fest, just curious how often this might come up. If I reuse the rag joint that 3rd joint will get trimmed. Honestly I just don't see how the backing pieces would have laid flat with that much over lap on each segment (1st picture in original post). Had I just trimmed that 3rd segment it would have probably turned out fine. Those little bolts got cranked down ALOT to smooth out the high spot with in ~1mm. Half stepping it again that’s all. It will be a little while before the engine gets fired, after looking in the exhaust port there is a little flash that should probably be removed. Working on 2 stroke motors is all new to me. Time to start reading up. Winter is right around the corner and I HATE the cold and snow so there is plenty of time.
     
  11. stv1jzgte

    stv1jzgte New Member

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    Really they fit perfectly! Maybe you should give creatives hub adapter a go just dont cut anything
     
  12. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Every rag joint I've assembled had the same issue of overlapping metal plates. It is easy to take care of. The screwdriver method will probably work but I use a large pair of reverse snap ring pliers to pry the metal plates apart to get things to lay flat prior to tightening the bolts.
    As for the argument betwen the clamshell verses the rag joint sprocket attachment, that is for those who have used both and have a basis for comparison. I have over 1500 milkes on my first rag joint and have not had any issues. No movment, no broken spokes and no sprocket wobble or chain problems. The clamp-on style of hub adapter, if properly sized for your particular hub, is certainly the way to go for those with the budget to support it but for those with limited funds, the kit supplied rag joint will suffice but proper installation is essential. There is little room for error with it. Sprocket concentricity is the most important factor and that takes time and patients to achieve. The clam-shell adapter takes the guesswork and frustration out of the sprocket installation and that's where it shines, especially for those with limited mechanical experience. Jim's adapter is the best available and if you want a precision part that will assure your sprocket will run true then I suggest that be your route. If you're handy and patient, the rag joint will work fine too. You just need to understand its concept and limitations.
    Tom
     
  13. Scotchmo

    Scotchmo New Member

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    You probably did not need to trim the backing pieces. Check them before installation. Set the rubber spacers aside and lay the split metal pieces flat on the sprocket and drop the bolt through the holes. If the bolts can be put in the holes without having to overlap the pieces, then you just need to use a little leverage to stretch the rubber spacers. Slowly tighten the complete assembly on the bike. A flat bladed screwdriver and a little leverage will allow you to stretch the rubber enough to allow the backing pieces to fall into place.
     
  14. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    And don't forget to tighten down equally or one of the plates will pop up and you'll have to start over.

    Fortunately only a small percentage have this problem.
     
  15. tsmra

    tsmra New Member

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    That is what is showing in picture #1. 1/8" to 1/4" overlap at every joint. IMO you should not have to pry anything around to make it fit. The high spot came from prying to lay flat the one joint that over lapped when the rubbers were in place and it not very noticable in picture #3 but that spot didn't compress the rubber as well.
     

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