Good Chinese 4 stroke or lemon?

Discussion in '4 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits' started by bikeybikerton, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hello,
    I'm new here. I bought a kent bayside. It looks good if you take all the stickers off. I am going to put a 4 stroke on it. I want to make these not only for myself, but sell them on the side. I found a wholesaler at alibaba.com .

    I was wondering if anyone recognizes this 4 stroke kit and if it is any good:
    https://besttouch.en.alibaba.com/pr...ne_kit_petrol_4_stroke_motor_for_bicycle.html

    I am planning on buying 5 to start out, but I don't want to buy any junk.
    They sent me an updated photo of the kit that I attached here.
    Could anyone tell me if its a good set up or a lemon?

    Thank you!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. TheNecromancer13

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    First off I notice on the alibaba page it says "two cycle 4 stroke motor". It can't be both. From looking at the engine it's a 4 cycle, but they include the standard 2 stroke kit exhaust pipe. It also has chineseium bolts which will shear off if you look at them wrong. Add to that the stock chinagirl chain tensioner, universally hated by all, and the stock sprocket adapter, which rips the spokes out of your wheel. Also that mounting plate looks like it will be very hit or miss as to whether it will actually fit any given bike frame. I am also unsure if it will mount onto the kent bayside
    To sum it all up, I would say it's a piece of **** and I wouldn't put one on a bike if you paid me to do it. However, if you're willing to spend a few hundred dollars on upgrades for each bike, it could work.
     
  3. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hi Necromancer13,
    Thank you very much! That was a huge help. I
    I'm glad you told these problems before I bought some and wasted my time and money! I found another one that seems different: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60343044653.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.qXLvgX
    I couldn't copy the picture or I would have included it. Would you mind telling me if this kit is any better? I don't need top of the line stuff, but I don't want junk either.
    I am also thinking about the bikeberry 4 stroke kits. Could you tell me how good those are?
    They have a wholesaler program. But their's are not belt drive so they go 25 instead of 30 mph like the belt drive one's. But if they are better quality, then I would prefer those.
    Thanks again for your expertise!
     
    #3 bikeybikerton, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  4. TheNecromancer13

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    The other alibaba ones look like it's just an engine without any of the components. I don't have any personal experience with bikeberry, but I've heard enough horror stories about them that I'd be wary if I were you.

    The problem with kits is that about 90% of them are made with cheap chinese parts that break easily and don't work very well. There are a few sellers that have better quality kits, but I can't tell you with certainty which ones are which, because I have built exactly one bike from a kit, the first bike I ever built. Now I build them from scratch and get much better results. Here's an example (my current ride):
    [​IMG]

    I have built a few others similar to this one (although not quite as nice) and sold them. They are a bit more expensive though. What is your budget?

    If you do build from a kit, expect to have to upgrade at least a few of the major components if you want an engine that won't break down or wreck your bike.

    How much are you thinking of spending on your bike btw?
     
    #4 TheNecromancer13, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  5. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hello Necromancer13,
    Nice bike! Thanks for the reply.
    It is a complete kit on that last link: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60343044653.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.qXLvgX

    The pictures of the parts are more than half way down. It looks like better components than that other alibaba link, but I'm not sure. Would you mind looking at it?

    I'd be happy spending 300 for a really good engine kit just for myself, but I want to start a business and sell 4 stroke bikes. So I need to find cheaper engine kits but ones that are not junk.

    Take Care,
    Pete



    I live in Hawaii and I think people would really want these here.
     
  6. TheNecromancer13

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    The components look exactly the same to me, but it is hard to tell because of the tiny picture. Judging by the unit price I'd say they are the same.

    If your budget is $300 I'd suggest going with a 2 stroke kit. That way you will have enough money left after buying the kit to replace the sprocket adapter and upgrade the spark plug, spark plug boot, fuel line, and fuel filter, and throw away the petcock and replace it with a barbed brass nipple. Might even have enough left over to buy an expansion chamber pipe.

    Unfortunately, $300 just isn't enough to get a good 4 stroke setup. If you're looking for a reference, expect to spend $400-600 for a 49cc 4 stroke setup. And if you want a bike like my red one, you're looking at about $1500 in parts, including the bike, although you could probably do it for a thousand if you forgo the disc brakes and front suspension (although I wouldn't recommend it). If you want to go above that after you've built a few bikes, I'm currently building a new bike that will cost about $3000, but it will have 4 speed transmission and engine powered headlights and go 60 mph. I think that would be overkill for a first build though.

    I'm not normally one to advocate the use of 2 stroke bike engines, but for your budget it seems like a 2 stroke might be your best option.
     
  7. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hi Necromancer13,
    Thank you for your insight.
    I meant to say "over $300". I've read the best 4 stroke kit is the grubee skyhawk 4g tbelt for 349$. But then I read this: "Good-bye to China/Grubee Junk, Hello To Reliable Motorized Bicycling!"

    http://motoredbikes.com/threads/goo...-hello-to-reliable-motorized-bicycling.39154/

    I like your bike, but I am trying to do the opposite of you. I want a very reliable form of transportation that is inexpensive, does not require constant tinkering, and is easy to put together. I want to sell these to people like me with no license that want a reliable inexpensive way to get around.

    The opinion of the guy above says friction drives are the most reliable. But his system costs 700$. So I'm thinking my next step is to look for a friction drive system that is good but affordable. Any ideas would be appreciated.

    Take Care,
    Bikeybikerton
     
  8. TheNecromancer13

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    Friction drives are cheap, but do very poorly in wet weather and on hills. They also wear out tires very fast, and that can get expensive pretty quickly. If you want to build a cheap friction drive, get a weed whacker engine and fashion a mount for it to drive the rear wheel. If you want a reliable engine, you're going to have to spend a bit more. My first bike, a 2 stroke kit, was broken more often than not because I didn't spend the money to do it right. The bike in the picture I posted now has over 5,000 miles on it without any breakdowns other than a few flat tires. When it comes to inexpensive transportation, in the grand scheme of things $1500 isn't that much, especially when you consider that you get over 100 miles to the gallon, and I can say from experience that some people will pay more than that for a bike like mine. Some non-motorized bikes cost more than that these days.

    I would not go with friction drive if I were you, as if I am not mistaken, it rains quite a bit in Hawaii
     
  9. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hello Necromancer 13,
    Yeah, its very wet here. I was then thinking of a rear chain drive but I cannot seem to find a kit. I heard DAX makes them but I don't see them on the website. I saw a rear belt drive kit yesterday but it was kind of pricey. I would like something with as little moving parts as possible so it is reliable and easy to put together. Your bikes are nice and could be resold too but I just don't want to have to put that much work into something for resale.

    But then I read this post that says friction drives do work in the rain. It might just be because of his setup though:
    http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=25770
    " Hmmmm...is this fact or friction...can't drive in the rain....LOL?

    I run 3 BMP friction drives with 3 Dax Super Titans. It rains about 60 inches a year here. Just got back from a 7 mile ride with my son in the rain. Bikes are covered with leaf litter and "slop". Neither of us had any slippage issues. PERIOD. This includes inclines of about 45 degrees that go for a city block. Slippage?....NOPE.

    Now...I must admit before I tried friction drives and was running the "80" Skyhawks with chain drives I figured friction drives would slip in the rain.
    However, when I built my first BMP kit with a 35cc Honda for my father in law, I figured I'd test it hard and see what they could do. Now the friction drive Honda 35 didn't have much horsepower behind it...but it ran so smooth, so quiet, so vibration free...compared to the chain drive skyhawks.....I figured....this has SERIOUS potential, it just needs MORE horsepower!

    So......tried out a Super Titan. Initially, I figured 50 Honda...but there is no "easy" clutch method for them. So... figured...I'd try the Super Titan. WOW! No way I'm ever going back to 2 stroke happy time motors. Since then...purchased 2 more Super Titans for the other 2 bikes in the family motor pool.

    Initially....I was very suspicious of 4 stroke vs 2 stroke...figured I'd lose power. Boy....was I wrong. The Super Titan flys up hills (1.25 BMP roller) where previously I'd be peddling my guts out with a 48 tooth rear sprocket and the big Skyhawks.

    Tires....I'm running Surfas, City Drifters at 55 psi. They are spendy....but a top rate tire. Couldn't be more pleased with them in the rain. Traction is excellent, they do not slip on wet leaves, mud etc. They wear like iron. Only place I could find them was REI."

    So....I'm going to have to say....myth busted. Friction drives work in the rain, just as well as in the dry. I only drive about 2,500 miles a season....but about 1/2 of that is in rain. "

    Maybe its just his huge engine and the type of tires that makes it possible. I'm still thinking chain drive for simplicity and reliability. but still looking for a kit.
     
  10. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hi Necromancer13,
    I found this chain drive here:
    http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=25770
    (attached photo). Seems better for rain than friction drive, but still simple and reliable looking.
    The link they gave doesn't work though. I cannot seem to find one like it anywhere.
    Here's a belt drive one:
    https://www.bikeengines.com/shop/4-stroke-bicycle-engine-38cc-silver-eagle-kit-32-spoke/
    But its only 38cc and kind of pricey for putting on bikes and reselling.
    Still trying to find the best kit for my purpose.

    You might tired of this thread so far! :) But you've helped me a lot in trying to make my decision. Thanks.
     

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  11. TheNecromancer13

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    You could probably do some sort of belt drive rear mounted 79cc predator setup for a few hundred, but I've never done one so the price range is just an educated guess.
     
  12. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Thanks for the help. I'll look into that.
     
  13. bruosb1105

    bruosb1105 New Member

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    Hi bikeybikerton
    If you are thinking of importing 30 of these motor kits from China let me tell you my experience. I did just that using Alibaba.com contact a little over a year ago. My advise....don't do it. However, maybe you have imported from China before and know the ins and outs. If not, it is not fun at all. Send me a PM if you are interested to hear about my experience. I hate to bore a lot of people out here to hear about this experience. Unless of course some of you like to hear about it?
     
  14. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

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    I'm interested in knowing your experiences with Alibaba.
     
  15. quik225

    quik225 New Member

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    Bring it on!
     
  16. bruosb1105

    bruosb1105 New Member

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    Okay, I’ll bring it on. What ever. I purchased and imported 30, 49cc, 4 stroke bicycle motor kits from Elon Tools (they also go by several different company names, look them up to check this out). I went with this company because they were Gold Members and offered the Trade Assurance (buy now, pay later). Also they stated they would help you with importing into the USA and give you 6 month warranty on the kits.

    Please note, these classifications don’t mean anything and anything they tell you may or may not be true. It is up to you to verify everything. Also, you are dealing with China, if any of your products are defective, (remember you wanted cheap) you will be stuck with the bad product no matter what warranties they promise you. Out of 30 kits, so far three drive units are bad. I contacted Elon Tools about this and got NO response. Did I tell you they will not back up their products? They won’t.

    They are master negotiators. Once you make a contact be prepared to hear from them daily and they will be your best friend. So if you are lonely, make a contact with a company and you will have a very good friend in China until they get your money, then… ha, they can care less about you. I thought I was smart, like most of you out there on this forum, and figured I will get the best price for purchasing a few kits. Well I did have to order 30 kits, it really isn’t worth it to get fewer due to the fees you will be paying for importing these kits. I started at 20 kits for $160 per kit, ended up buying 30 kits at $165 per kit. I found out I paid too much for each kit, now after the fact I should have only paid $110 max per kit.

    Negotiations took about 2 weeks of daily back and forth emails. Once you come to an agreement, they will require you to wire the money to them. Forget about buy now pay later. I think that is for seasoned importers and large quantity purchases. At 30 units, forget it. $45 wire fee from your bank, this will be the first of many fees you will be paying! Hope like **** they will send your product, at this point your money is gone. I went with the Gold Classification of this company and they did send me the product.

    It took about 3 weeks to get the order ready for shipment. Once this is done the fun begins. You, and I mean YOU, will have to get the forms ready. Also, at this point you will need an import broker. Don’t even think you are smart enough to do this yourself, then again I am sure most of you are smarter than me, if so go for it! Get the import book for dummies and read it.

    Pretty much Elon Tools shrink wrapped the kits on a pallet and moved them to the shipping yard in China. Then it was up to me and the broker to get the forms completed and filed. I did paid Elon Tools $300 for shipping from China to Los Angeles. After that you are really on your own. It took 2 months from when Elon Tools confirmed the pallet was at the shipping dock in China to when I picked up the pallet in Denver CO, shipping time and customs time. Total time, about 2 ½ months to get the kits. Agreement on terms, Dec 1st 2015, received kits in Denver Feb 18th 2016.

    There were many fees to be paid, I won’t go over all of them, your broker can help you with this. End result is… cost from Elon Tools $165 per kit plus $45 per kit for shipping, import and customs fees; total cost per unit $210. This is too high to buy these kits to make any money on them. I would recommend to purchase 4 or 5 kits from a local dealer at a better price if you are only building motorized bikes. I bet you could pick them up for under $200 each if you buy 5 to 8 kits, (I sure hope they had better luck getting them at a better price to what I paid).

    Don’t get 30 of them, the demand isn’t there. I contacted 3 people who are building these motorized bikes in the Denver area to unload some of my kits. They told me no thanks, there wasn’t much demand for the 4 stroke kits, people liked the 2 stroke motors, lighter and more powerful. So, I have 19 kits left after a year. Sales are really slow. Hope this helps. BTW, Elon Tools isn’t on Alababa any more. So much for the “Gold” classification! Then again, they could be out there under a different name?

    Oh, also check the current regulations regarding EPA certifications for importing small engines. This could be a killer on importing them. Elon Tools told me I didn't need it, Customs told me I did, who are you to believe? I think I got lucky where the customs agent missed this certification when he inspected my kits. BTW, they opened 18 of the 30 kits for inspection. I had to repackage each one they opened, they will make a mess of your packaging!

    Any ideas on the best way to market these kits. Sold one on Ebay only to get $210 for it, after shipping and fees for ebay and paypal, I lost $60 on that kit. Craigslist sales are very slow here, not much interest locally for these kits. So far I have built 5 motorized bikes at a profit of $25 per bike, ugh, lot of work for little pay, but it better than loosing money.
     
  17. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Hi,
    Sorry to hear about your Chinese product experience! After hearing yours and other stories, I've backed away from these products. I just got a dax chain drive kit with a titan engine and put it on a 120$ bike. Its super reliable. I thought about trying to sell them but the kit is 400$ and the bike 120$ plus about 70$ to reinforce the fenders and put slime tubes and tire liners in. So the total cost was about 600$. I guess I could try to sell them for 750$ or 800? What do you think? Once I put the first one together, its easy after that.
     
  18. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Here's some pics of my non-Chinese chain drive. Anyone think I could sell these for 750$ or 800$? Super reliable and needs no clutch. I reinforced the fenders with steel brackets and put slime tubes and puncture resistant tire liners in it.
     

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  19. bikeybikerton

    bikeybikerton New Member

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    Another pic. Sorry about the fuzzy photos.
     

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  20. bruosb1105

    bruosb1105 New Member

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    Hey live and learn! I'm glad to hear you are not going to pursue the Alababa route. It's an expensive lesson to learn. BTW the clutch and chain drive on those China units the Vendors are selling on Alababa are junk. They won't last 2 weeks of ridding. On selling your bikes for that high of a price, do some serious marketing research. Check Craig's list, or what ever you have there to sell locally over the internet. Here in the Denver area gas bikes don't sell very well at that price if they sell at all. Only those for racing may see this kind of price and those are very specialized high performance bikes. Good luck! I have contacted a couple vendors with upgraded drive transmissions, one double chain, the other a belt drive. Going to test each one out and put them on bikes that I will sell in the $450 price range.... or more like $375 ;)
     

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