DUDE! Where's my locking freewheel ??!!

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Nashville Kat, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    As a former racer, and now that I've tried my motor bike out a little, the one thing I'd like to have (besides a quieter motor) is better peddling!

    I'm on a motorized cruiser now, but thinking I may build up a road bike with some 27 or 700C wheels, and the one thing I don't like is the way the bike pedals now- The motor's weight really doesn't affect that much, but now the extra drag of the big sprocket, heavy 415 chain, and especially the turning of the shaft take a lot of "normal cycling" away from the already sluggish cruiser.

    So I've figured out what we need: A LOCKING FREEWHEEL-

    Switch a lever and the motor freewheel on the back wheel acts like the freewheel on the other side- it freewheels without the motor chain, sprocket or shaft turning with it-

    but then throw the lever the other way, and the assembly LOCKS UP like a fixed cog- Fires up the motor, and you're off under power again!

    I've seen freewheels advertised on e-bay, with double sided hubs, but i'm assuming that one then needs a pull start to get the motor going-

    I enjoy shutting the motor on and off quite a bit- off on downhills or at intersections, and on again on longer stretches or up hills-

    Can anybody build one of these please?

    I just took delivery on a narrow sprocket and cruiser chain and a narrow 36 rear sprocket,so I'm hoping hat cuts down peddling drag some- but I wont be happy until the bike is peddling close to normal again!

    anyway, stay safe and Happy Motoring!

    TheHearpe.tripod.com

     
  2. Junster

    Junster New Member

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  3. lordoflightaz

    lordoflightaz New Member

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  4. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    A MB that freewheels like the bike did before it was motorized, one that performs more like a motorized bicycle than a moped (without having to leave the seat).
    Observing the number of bikes being built, it seems to many its not that big a thing.
    To me it's been the holy grail and one of the contributing factors for abandoning the frame mounted Chinese engines.
     
    #4 happyvalley, Jun 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  5. matt167

    matt167 New Member

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    if you could get enough current from the white wire going thru an automotive A/C clutch, that could work to lock it up.. it doesn't take much power to lock those clutches up, and they would hold strong enough for the engine power.. A/C pumps draw more power than these engines produce..

    only problem is you would an external source of power to lock it up when you want to fire it up.. a battery of some sort would do
     
  6. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Electric switch, eh?

    That's more than I was thinking- another cable.

    but this one doesn't even have to be on the bars. (My Micargi 7 speed is too crowded, and I just got a dual brake lever I have yet to install). A small lever on the seat post or seat stay will do. I'm picturing a three-speed control sized thing. It just has to go "on and off".

    The old three speed hubs had a rod through them somehow- I never worked on them much in the shops- all it would have to do is move a pin mechanism to let the freewheel spin free or be locked up-

    Also, our fixed sprokets could be drastically cut in weight and improved if someone would put out a splined hub- a matching sprocket would fit over the spline, and then be locked with a simple reverse thread lockring- (everything has to be reverse thread on the left side, or the chain pull direction will lossen it. The freewheels I see advertised babble something about screwing it on reversed- so I'm wondering if the friggin thing could ever then come off? And they don't lock up- just always work in freewheel mode)

    Anyway, a splined hub and sprocket andlockring would eliminate all the nine bolts, all the steel backing plates and all the rubber pieces, assuming the alignment is good. My Macargi muti-speed hub, while not threaded, is the EXACT diameter of the sprocket hole, and then also has a stop ridge on the inside, that stops the sprocket exactly the width of a rubber side. I only had to use one piece of rubber, and not a chain tensioner either- it all lines up perfectly, like the asian frame and hub are otherwise made for the motor-

    I just found oout that a bottom bracket lockring can also double as a cog lockring- but I don't think it can be reverse threaded.
     
  7. matt167

    matt167 New Member

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    use a CE clamshell adaptor instead of the rag joint and 9 bolt sprocket. you should then be able to fabricate some system to make a locking free wheel..
     
  8. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Actually, the now-popular single-cog track flip-flop hubs and wheelsets are really good too-

    A freewheel goes on one side and a fixed track cog- and lockring- go on the other-

    the flanges for the track cog fit our motor bike sprockets perfectly, and the hub has a stop ridge to keep it out of the spokes-

    the lockring would spin on the wrong way with normal threads, but maybe another cup or cone/washer could hold it all on-

    the motor sprocket would be wedged securely-and supported by the same diameter hub- the all it needs is minimal leverage to drive it with the hub- I'm looking for large flange hub now- I think some small lightweight bolts could go through both the sprocket and hub-


    They are mostly available in 700C for a road/track frame, but the hubs could be on a 26" rim- they're on e-bay under "bicycle wheelsets"

    I bought an old Schwinn World traveler (for 5 dollars!) about two weeks back, I'm think of motoring-

    I've painted it and put MX bars and stem- it has a nice alloy crank- and 27" wheels (too large an un-dyed flange in the back) so I'm maybe gonna get some fixed gear trackie wheels-

    I'm thinking a lightweight 48cc, with narrow chain and lightweight 36 sprocket I have already- Keep the whole thing as light as possible- maybe 36 lbs or so- and the narrow wheels ought to really roll!!!

    One word about road frames- BEWARE of the narrow bottom brackets and 3 piece axles-

    the World Traveler is not a true racing frame, but still lightweight and sturdy, normal size tubes, and it looks like the 80 on my cruiser might clear the cranks- (a nice alloy Sugino 3 piece setup)

    but I've already bought a wide 135mmm spindle at Sick Bike Parts that I KNOW will clear-
    and I guess the 48cc's are a little more narrow-

    Say, does anyone have accurate measurements of the width of the different engines (all 2 and 4 stroke) they could share here?
     
    #8 Nashville Kat, Jun 11, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  9. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    Nashville Kat, I Don`t Think This Is What You Are After But; I Had A Left Hand Thread Die Made To Cut Left Hand Threads On My Bicyle Hubs. Then I Can Screw On A Left Hand Freewheel Adapter Or a Complete Sprocket. Ron .. .. .cvlt1 What you are trying to achive would be great for sure! The 3rd and 4th pics are right hand thread and right side drive
     

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    #9 NEAT TIMES, Jun 11, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  10. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Hey Neat,

    Yeah, that's a start. You had die MADE?

    I'm annoyed at standard road hubs, and have wondered if the left side could be cut down to the same diameter as the threaded side, and then even died like this- they seem to have as much clearance off the bearings as the freewheel side-

    Do the manufacturers fear the motor sprocket?

    I've been trying to track down some hubs like my Micargi multi speed rear- it's not threaded but already the correct diameter otherwise- a lockring would be nice- but it's a little bit cheap- steel with pressed on bearing races- so now i'm trying to get a line on some large dflange trak flip-flop-

    the thread is right-handed, but the sprocket fits over it snugly-

    Obviously I'm sort of a cycling purist and much concerned with weight- I think thats the main strength of a motorized bicycle compared to a scooter- Even a small 50cc scooter weighs in at about 200 lbs, while I can lug the bike up the stairs if need be, and I can tear it down and put it in the car or on a rack- plus most of the parts are quickly available at a bike shop.

    Your allen bolt sprocket fasteners are interesting- what are they driven into?

    also, how do you post these attached thumbnails- they're great!
     
  11. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Also- about the motor measurements- let me kick things off with what I can measure here:

    the 80 appears to be 4 3/4 inches wide or about 120mm - so slightly more is needed for the cranks to clear- I think the widths go down from there-

    Also, if the "80" is really just a 66 cc, why don't they just tell us that? The public will over-react- MARKETING!
     
  12. toytime

    toytime New Member

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    The Izip has a wheel with a freewheel on the left side. I just paid $92.40 for one from DUREL. The right side is a 6 speed and the left side comes with the sprocket for the electric drive. The sprocket and chain are what look to be bicycle size but I can picture the sprocket as the beginnings of a mount for the larger kit supplied sprocket.
     
  13. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    Nk, The Allen Bolts Have Low Profile Ny-lock Nuts, You Can See Them In The Pic. About The Ebike Wheel, They Make A Left Hand Thread Freewheel Sprocket Adapter, But I Don`t Know Where To Buy Them Separately. Yes I Had The Lh Die Made, It Took 10 Days And $150 Bucks. I Have Bought A Couple Lh Free Wheel Sprockets. With A 2 1/8" Center Hole Cut In The China Girl Lg Sprockets You Could Bolt Them Together Using The Teeth. Ron
     
  14. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    I think I've found some high flange flip-flop trackie hubs- I recently got a 36 sprocket- really just nine holes and the larger 1 3/8" center (is it?) that was made from a BMX crank-

    I hope with high flange hubs, the sprocket should slip snuggly over left side threads- though sans threadinbg down- a lockring should hold it then snuggly side-to-side,

    and I'm thinking that maybe some smaller alloy nuts and bolts- (6 or 9) will just go through the flange holes, if I drill lower holes in the sprocket- to hold it to the rotating hub then-

    I've looked at track cogs and freewheels and they seem to screw onto threads the same diameter as our sprocket center=

    Together with a cruiser chain ansd narrow motor sprocket, it should be keeping things lightweight

    I'll let you know what happens- I'm still querying the dealer-
     
  15. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Here's the Scwinn Traveler I bought for five dollars from a junk dealer- before paint, and then after most of rebuild, w/ new paint, MX bars and stem, pedals, suspension post and new saddle-

    I checked on the flip/flop 700C wheels and all that's holding me back right now is money-

    I'm thinking Chrome 48, chrome tank and extended chrome pipe and muffler (I already have)

    a narrow sprocket and chain and minimal 36 sprocket drilled to attach to high flange hubs-

    Only question then, should I leave the back derailleur on? I probably will, because a derailleur acts as a chain tensioner for the other side, leaving the adjustment of motor chain to the Traveler's long horizontal wheel droputs.

    TheHearpe.tripod.com
     

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  16. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    NK, That should be a nice build. I like the new bars. RON cvlt1
     
  17. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    OK- just a quick note after researching these "flip-flop" hubs some more, and trhis is from a dealer answering a question to someone else on e-bay-

    Apparently, the lockring on a rear "flip-flop" track "fixie" hub is ALREADY reversed thread-

    That means that our sprocket will fit the diameter of the hub (a standard Track bicycle racing cog threading)- ALTHOUGH IT WON"T THREAD DOWN.

    But the lockring, with left-handed reverse thread, WILL LOCK and hold it laterally about 1/8 inch from the spokes.


    The best solution here then, outside of the "locking freewheel" would then simply be a track cog that had enough teeth for our motors. That WOULD thread on (they only seem to go up to about 22- trackies always "push the big meat!" So then what would a 22 cog do with the motor?- about 180 mph or something, once it got going!)

    So then all that is needed is a way to move our sprockets forward WITH THE HUB- and it appears that some simple and lightweight (even alloy!) bolts may go through some drilled holes in the sprocket, and directly through the holes in many typical HIGH-FLANGED hubs- to pull the already locked down sprocket with it- and eliminating all the heavy metal plates and rubber pieces and long standard nine bolts. (there are still nine holes in MOST high flange alloy hubs, only they are closer to the large inner hole. I'm thinking that six then may be enough- eliminating every third bolt and nut.)

    A place called "Bike wagon" in Salt Lake is selling them on E-bay- I'm sure there are others- These are on 700c wheelsets- 26 inch may be hard to find, or build your own, or have the local bike shop build them, once you get a rear hub.

    If anyone has any objection to the arrangement, let him speak now, but I'm probably gonna try this when I get the money and time- I've been spending too much time on this friggin nonsense anyway! And I stepped on a nail a couple of weeks ago, got a tetnus shot and have been sick since.
     
    #17 Nashville Kat, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  18. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Ok- i'm just bumping this up mostly because I'm hoping that someone will see this idea-

    of a LOCKING FREEWHEEL and who can make it reality-

    A flip flop hub would work- with a freewheel on each side, and the one on the motor side would then lock up with a lever, to restart the motor-

    so that when the motor is off and the bike is being pedalled- only the regular bike chain would be turning- only the weight of the motor kit itself would be the difference between normal cycling then

    and MOTORING!

    The bike wouldn't need a pull start or a centrifical clutch.

    Here is the bike now- built up with gears- but if I put a motor on, I'd probably use a single freewheel and take all the shift stuff off- to keep it all really lightweight.
     

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  19. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    So it looks like this will soon be a reality-

    www.hybridped.com says the pedal start freewheel will be available early September- NOW!

    I bought a pair of 700C flip flop wheels, but then resold them- the 1 inch tires looked a little too narrow and I was then grinding the schwinn hub- it's not as tidy, but cheaper.

    So I'm going with these 27 X 1 1/4 tires if and when I motor this- it's a great ride otherwise!
     
  20. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    Here is the hub ground with a file and just using the pedals to drive the wheel forward with the bike upside down,

    and a light weight 34 sprocket drilled to bolt directly to the 9 hole large flange hub (once centered hole drilled to size as well)

    I also have a 32 sprocket from boygofast that is already drilled close to center hole, and it appears a equilateral rectangle pattern of four bolts would attach directly as well-

    of course, this still isn't the locking freewheel or "pedal start freewheel"
     

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