Dual Drive Freewheel on OCC-XL Choppers

Discussion in 'Stretch Cruiser & Chopper Motorized Bicycles' started by Crazy Horse, May 26, 2010.

  1. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Dealer

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    Ok now I have a challenge I'm thinking about running a Left Hand / Right Hand Dual Drive Freewheel on my OCC Chopper & XL Chopper Builds.

    Here's a few pic's or rear wheel left side & right side. The right side has a freewheel sprocket and I'd like to add a freewheel sprocket to left side.

    Why?

    Answer: If this is possible I won't have to use a jackshaft to switch honda 4-stroke 50cc pit / dirt bike drive train to right side rear freewheel sprocket.

    I would in then have two or a Dual Drive rear freewheeling HUB / Wheel.

    I would still have my pedal power driven right side rear freewheeling sprocket, and on the left side I'd have a motor driven rear freewheeling sprocket at the rear wheel !!! YEAH !

    The reason I'm trying to do this is that with the chinese cloned honda pit / dirtbike engine, when you place it into the frame the engine drive sprocket lines up almost perfectly with rear wheel axle.

    On the OCC Choppers & XL Choppers you have almost 1-1/4" thats one & one quarter inches of free space on left side of rear wheel and the Hub appears to have flange diameter of 1-1/4"s also.

    If anyone has suggestions or know where to purchase these please share this info.

    Here's the pic's of XL Chopper rear hub & wheel:
    [​IMG]

    Notice all this space / room for a possible left side drive freewheel sprocket.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Peace Crazy Horse.
     
  2. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Dealer

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    What I'm trying to do is not use a jackshaft on a chinese cloned Honda CT 70 / Mini Trail 50 engine, and I'd like to find a dual drive dual freewheel sprocket.

    Here's a pic of the motor on a Honda CT 70 Trail Bike & a pic of i-paints Stretch Micargi with same type of motor only he has used the jackshaft option:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's i-paints Stretch Micargi using same type motor, but with a jackshaft:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hope that explains it, not going to use multi-speed cassette.

    The chinese cloned Honda engine I'm using is a fully automatic transmission, with a fixed motor driven sprocket mounted on rear wheel I won't be able to pedal the bike as the motor driven side will spin.

    Thanks for the reply CC.

    C.H.
     
  3. TerrontheSnake

    TerrontheSnake New Member

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    I am watching this thread for an answer as well. I will also try to do some research into the subject because I have similar needs
     
  4. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Dealer

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    Here's pic of a BMX Dual Drive Hub:
    [​IMG]

    This one is a Left Hand Side threaded & Right Hand Side threaded:

    [​IMG]

    Terron I'm hoping that Jim ( Manic Mechanic / Creative Engineering ), and Neat Times ( Ron ) see this thread and offer any suggestions, as they both have experience with freewheel sprockets.

    I'm not sure those two Hubs above will be compatible with the OCC Chopper & the XL Chopper!

    I called Jim today and I'm waiting to hear back from him.

    C.H.
     
  5. i-paint

    i-paint New Member

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    CH, You can purchase left hand thread free wheels from Staton. i-paint
     
    #5 i-paint, May 26, 2010
    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  6. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

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    Just a dumb question CH but aren't those automatic transmissions just a CVT and if so it shouldn't matter if the motor side spins because on a CVT the faster the driven pully is spun without the drive pulley engaged the looser the belt gets.
     
  7. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    i thought about this with a china doll motor, but with a engine side freewheel, you'd ned a pull start. but it would be awesome for coasting, because the motor would stay at idle and the chain wouldn't be slapping around like crazy. but you couldn't pedal to start it.

    another problem, if you use a "flip-flop" hub, both sides are threaded the same, so the freewheel would spin off of one side (depending on if you have a left hand or a right hand drive hub.)

    i was looking at hubs today, actually, and was thinking i could put a fixed gear on the engine side and a freewheel on the pedal side, then weld the fix gear on, due to the unthreading problem i mentioned above.

    dunno if i'll ever get around to trying it...
     
  8. civlized

    civlized New Member

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    HybriPed (Hybrid Pedal) Sprocket - $49.99

    Freewheel Sprocket & HD Axle Kit w/Brake - $49.99

    I don't know if this would work or even be the look you are going for. I just saw it a few weeks ago and thought it was kind of cool. The second link is the heavy duty hub that I used on my bike. I'm sure the length of the axle wouldn't work for you, but you might be able to use the freewheel part and make an adapter to fit your hub. What you are doing is exactly what I did(except for not using a jackshaft). Freewheel on both sides and I love it. I will tell you that when the engine sprocket freewheels, it is kind of tricky to get used to with this type of engine. It feels like it will throw your back out when the bike is coasting and you throttle up too fast, the engine takes a second or two to catch up with the rpm's of the sprocket. When it does catch up, it is going somewhere! Have to be conscious of it and throttle up slowly until the freewheel engages. Then you can hammer down on it. It scared the crap out of me a couple of times when I first got it going. The little engine has so much torque that I thought the bike was gonna come out from under me when I gassed on it coasting down a hill.
     
    #8 civlized, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  9. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    Interesting thread. I hope you guys come up with something and admire very much what you're trying to do. Pioneers
     
  10. camlifter

    camlifter Active Member

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    do a google search on flip flop hubs, also since the motor has a clutch the left side could just be a disk brake type and bolt the sprocket to that.
     
  11. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Dealer

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    I'm so confused right now, regarding the fully automatic chinese cloned Honda CT 70 Trail Bike motor.

    Why? Ok with my Lifan semi-automatic 4-speed 110cc, if the engine is off it must be in neutral to roll the bike, just like any other motorcycle.
    I'm curious if I just mount the Manic Mechanic hub adapter the chain drive on engine will spin the chain and rear wheel whenever the bike is rolled using the automatic 50/70cc.

    Question: Anyone know will the fully automatic, if the engine is off will the transmission be in first gear or being that its fully automatic 3-speed will it be automatically in neutral and allow rear wheel to spin freely?

    I'd really like to find someway to make this dual drive dual freewheel application work!

    If I understood correctly ( Ron ), aka Neat Times say's yes just have to take hub off bike/wheel and take to machine shop and have left handed threads cut in left side of hub.

    If this is the case consider it done, I'll pull the wheel and remove the spokes, and let the machine shop have at it. While this is being done I'll shop a new set of spokes 12-gage.

    "QUOTE FROM NEAT TIMES,
    If You Could Get The Left Side Threaded How Many Tooth Sprocket Would You Need On The Back Wheel?

    If You Are Good At Assembling Wheels With Spokes, Then It Is No Proplem.

    Take The Wheel Apart And Get The Hub Threaded, (do All you Have At A Time,cheaper Once The Machinist Is Set-up. Lol)

    There Should Be A Lot Of Places That Could Do The Hub Without The Rim..

    When You Take It To The Machine Shop You Need A Left Hand Free Wheel Sprocket With 16 Teeth.

    So He Can Open Up The Center Of You Large Driven Rear Sprocket to fit nice on the free wheel. And See If It Screw`s On the wheel hub Nicely.

    A File Will Not Even Scratch The Hardened Free Wheels.

    The Threads Should Be Cut As Close To The Spokes As Feasible, Then You Can Use The Nice Spacers In The "cvt Rack Mount"

    To Keep The Threads From Bottoming Out And To Help Align Your Sprockets.

    You Can Also Mount The Large Sprocket On The Inside Or Outside Of The 16 Tooth Free Wheel Teeth For Alignment. If You Do A Good Job I Can Send You My Wheel`s!
    END QUOTE"


    Neat Times I plan on using either the 28 or 29 Tooth rear sprocket for either 428 or 520 Chain,
    should I take this to machine shop also with your suggested LEFT HAND THREADED 16-TOOTH FREEWHEEL SPROCKET to make sure it screws or threads onto new threaded left side!


    If anyone has suggestions for this idea please share them, I think if this works it could become really popular, I know it has for Neat Times as I believe he was the first to do this on some of his other builds.

    Neat Times please let me know if I got all this correct cause I'm ready to pull this wheel on the XL Chopper and while I'm at it I'll pull the OCC Stingray Chopper and have it done at same time!

    Let me Know ASAP please & Thanks to everyone interested and their suggestions just waiting for Neat Times to say if he thinks this will definitely work and then I'm off to see the wizard of The Machine Shop

    That's all I got for now, Peace Crazy Horse!!!!
     
  12. civlized

    civlized New Member

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    As I understand them, the fully auto's are a cvt. When the engine is off, the sprocket will turn. It's not like a freewheel though. There is some drag to it.
     
  13. civlized

    civlized New Member

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    #13 civlized, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  14. civlized

    civlized New Member

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    LOL! I guess you've still only been wrong once, huh? LOL

    I thought that looked kind of interesting, but didn't really look at it in detail. I'm always looking for new stuff that might keep down some of the shade tree fabbing or atleast make it easier.

    http://www.hybriped.com.au/main/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Image:06i.jpg

    http://www.hybriped.com.au/main/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Image:01i.jpg

    I don't know for sure. I had to go back and look, but doesn't this drawing seem to indicate an axle boss that fits on the outside of the axle and threads into the freewheel, not threaded onto the hub? I'm gonna have to buy one of these things just to find out.
     
    #14 civlized, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  15. civlized

    civlized New Member

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  16. civlized

    civlized New Member

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    HybriPed - Wiki - Installation Guide

    I'm sorry Ron, I just can't stop with this. This video shows that a threaded hub is not needed. The parts come with the kit to make (almost) any hub accept this sprocket.

    I've been wrong once too, and I didn't like it. LOL!
     
  17. Goat Herder

    Goat Herder Gutter Rider

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    Ok I looked where is this video?
     
  18. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Dealer

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    Neat Times & Civlized I like all the information that is being genarated due to this thread!

    I think that as Civlized has shown this is a possible alternative!

    But my first choice is still the freewheeling sprocket!

    Question for Neat Times: So in my previous post I was hoping that you would confirm my understanding of what you posted.

    If I'm correct you stated pull the wheel remove spokes from hub and take to machine shop have them thread Left hand threads onto it and give the machinist a 16 tooth left hand threaded freewheeling sprocket to make sure they work and that they be (24 TPI ) threads per inch, and should it be threaded all the way tight against the Hub Flange!

    If this will work I'm psyched up for this option and if this Idea suggested from Neat Times say's it's not feasible, well then there's the second option as suggested by Civlized with the HyBriPed.

    Waiting for reply's to this crazy thread....

    Crazy Horse!
     
  19. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Dealer

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    Let me get this right just buy this one ( Freewheel Sprocket & HD Axle Kit w/Brake ), from bicycle-engines and have the threads machined on My OCC Stingray Chopper & my XL Chopper and I'm going to be very happy.

    Tell me yes!!!
    [​IMG]

    Let me know please! I'm waiting for your reply's!

    Thanks Crazy Horse.
     
    #19 Crazy Horse, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  20. civlized

    civlized New Member

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    What's up fella's?

    CH, that is the axle I used with my 50cc engine. It works great! I don't know about your bigger engine with more power, but mine has about 700 miles on it still working fine. I don't know why, but the freewheel has 5 holes and the fixed sprocket has 6 holes. Bicycle-engines has both and probably got them mixed up in the pic. The band brake on mine kind of SUCKS! I don't like it at all. Whenever I can get around to it, I'm gonna have a piece made to adapt a disc brake where the drum threads onto the axle. I think if I were you, that would be my first course of action. Thread your hub and install the freewheel from this kit.

    I'm sorry Ron. You're still a pretty smart cookie, in my book!
     
    #20 civlized, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010

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