brainfart

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by diceman2004, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. diceman2004

    diceman2004 New Member

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    Even with the clutch dissengaged , it still kinda sucks pedaling .
    Wouldn,t it be nice to be able to pedal without cranking the drive gear .

    Oh yeah .. they have freewheel hubs , but you need a pullstart to start the motor .

    OK .. here comes the brainfart ...pfthuut ... DING .

    Heavy duty coaster brake hub , with a freewheelling engine side gear .

    What if .... the brake arm was attached to the gear , instead of the frame ?

    HMMMMM . Wonder what happens when ya pedal backwards ?
     
  2. Mr. Minecraft

    Mr. Minecraft Visionary

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    The coaster brake will lock up causing the pedals to spin at 20+ mph. You will die >:p

    jk But really go ahead and try at like 2 mph and see what happens.
     
  3. JonnyR

    JonnyR New Member

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  4. diceman2004

    diceman2004 New Member

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    I was thinking that , it could very well be the case , but , the pedal side freewheels also .. Well at least when your not applying the brake .

    Also , arguement against .. An unsecured brake arm doesn,t spin freely with the rest of the wheel ... it will stay where it is , until you apply the brakes .
    So there is one problem to solve .
    Might need to make something up , so that tightening the wheel doesn.t tighten against the brake arm ( like a washer ) .

    Its the brake cancelation thats the hard part .. you would need to coast for a fraction of a second ...

    Oh my god .. i just figured it out ( sorry guys .. this one requires a pattent ) .
    Could take a while seeing i cant even afford a pack of smokes .
     
  5. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    GOTTA have a 415 TRIKE/Industrial chain- half the weight and smaller plates- 415 size otherwise- BIG difference rolling- and if you can feel that much difference peddling- the motor's gotta be feeling it too-

    http://www.amazon.com/Worksman-Chain-16-109L-Each/dp/B00113FUMS
    http://www.bikeshopliquidators.com/p-4126-kmc-316-415-trike-industrial-single-speed-chains.aspx
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/KMC-415-110...122?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c08fbcba

    Is your kit new?- I think they do get a little easier rolling with break in.

    I personally also like to have a bike as reasonably equipped to something built to ride distance on- i.e. lightweight wheels- most important- fairly narrow tires, and a newer lighter cruiser frame- the vintage diamond ten speeds don't have a long enough top bar for a tank there and normal peddlin- but you can get a rear rack tank

    I'm always sayin that my two builds probably pedal better than MOST regular bikes out there

    Both are single freewheels now- I found I wasn't using the seven cog and rear derailleur on the one, here in flat Florida, and riding almost exclusively within several miles of home- so I dropped that weight and took those off.

    I've done a number of things to keep the kit weight down- no tensioner, trike chain, alloy sprocket and bolted to hub so there's no rag joints with plates and rubber and heavy bolts- smaller tank- titanium bolts for the motor covers

    It all adds up, peddaling especially, just like normal cycling
     
    #5 Nashville Kat, Oct 12, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  6. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Really like where you're going with this Diceman.

    I had always thought that a second clutch arrangement could work but that would take some real tinkermagic.

    Hmmm, maybe just a pauled ratcheting sort of thing? That would be pretty doable.

    LOL, loud while pedal powered but doable.
     
  7. diceman2004

    diceman2004 New Member

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    Nashville .. Ive seen you mention that chain a few times , and its on of the things I,m interested in because the regular chain is too wide for the sprockets too begin with .
    Its sloppy and noisy ... i don,t like it . That trike chain seems worth looking into .

    On a note to the pedaling with the motor off , I,m not too convinced that anyones bike will pedal just as easy with the clutch simply disengaged . Fact is , you are still turning extra sprockets ( in an overdrive condition ) .

    I was toying with the idea of gutting a motor for the clutch parts to build a clutched sprocket for the wheel on the motor side ( too broke to experiment )

    Dan .. ya , really if you think about it , all a clutch is , is a brake .
    I came up with a way to do it , but not simply by using a coaster brake ( thats gonna take some experimentation ) . but theres got to be a way of easily converting the brake to a clutch . Like i said before , cancelling the brake is the tricky part . My thought is , as soon as you let off the gas , and the wheel turns more than the sprocket , it should cancel the brake ( but ... the way it is , that works for the original sprocket on the right side )

    Note .. the concept is this .. pedal the bike to speed .. pedal bacwards asif to use a coaster brake .. this locks the left sprocket ( from freewheeling ) and kicks the motor over ... then it releases , allowing the wheel to freewheel again .

    Advantages .. it makes the engine clutch redundant ( no need to disengage it at all )
    With a freewheeling design , you can coast down a very long hill without needing to turn off the engine ( you won,t run the engine in a dry overdriven condition )
    The motor will not slow the bike down when you let off the gas , increasing your milage

    Possible disadvantages , the motor will not slow the bike down when you let off the gas , ( i kinda like engine braking ... I,m used to standard )
    Excesive impact wear on the oneway bearing .
     
  8. diceman2004

    diceman2004 New Member

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    oops .. sorry.. yes you do still kinda need to use the engine clutch , or the bike will crawl at engine idle .
     
  9. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Very clever Dice. Could be really cool.
     
  10. moonerdizzle

    moonerdizzle New Member

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    ill trade ya, i would gladly pedal around a happy time motor compaired to my heavy tank four stroke with no freewheel in the drive tran any where. nothing like a constant ching ching ching of clutch ringing as your pedal around lol. But it does sound like your onto a good idea with the hub mounted sprocket clutch. i dont know how your going to maintain your bearing cones and allow the freecoaster clutch to engage the sprocket, but where there is a will, there is a way
     
  11. Nashville Kat

    Nashville Kat Active Member

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    A couple of years back- some company in Australia came up with a disengaging clutch on the motor side sprocket- the trouble was that you had to get off and disengage it- I had written a thread here long ago that we needed a disengaging freewhell on the motor sprocket- but you really need it while riding- not getting off to switch it over- like the very first derailleurs long ago!

    http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=8687

    Yes- there is the centrifical clutch and then pull starter- but the pull starter generally requires then that the cranks be set another inch wider, so that's areal negative trade-off to cyclists otherwise.

    As my bikes are, and the type of riding I do- I really have dropped the issue in my own mind- with good wheels and lightweight components , and the newer chain- they pedal quite nicely for the short distances I need- if I break down and had to pedal- I'm good for many miles- but I wouldn't want to pedal it like that all the time! Around the store parking lots, or crowded pedestrian areas I'm all set- just peddalled through the park beside ther St, John's river here in Jacksonville today- no problem at all and very minimal resistance or noise from the extra chain and sprocket and motor bearing.

    http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=24770

    I'm totally motoring now in mostly short bursts in the urban area- I get up to speed and go as far as I need and if there's a stop up ahead- I hit the kill switch a block or more (largely depending on the wind- everything's flat here otherwise} and I coast up to it- arriving at cycling pace- enjoying the quiet roll every bit of the way-

    and I'm not grabbing the brakes super hard then and wearing out the pads that much sooner- it's truly combining cycling and motoring- and my fuel just lasts and lasts-

    If someone got 100 or 150 a gallon, motoring 26" wheels with beach tires around with the motor on most of the time- I may even be DOUBLING that mileage- and actually pedalling very little to do it- I'm just coasting a lot, on a bike that coasts almost like a roadbike- but a roadbike that's starting at 30 mph!

    One thing about the 415 Trike chain- it's STILL the same dimension basically- the pitch and the width- if you think a 415 is sloppy now you may not like it any better. (I've tried the 410 narrower 1/8" chain, and narrow motor drive sprocket, and I thought it would be too finicky to get and stay alligned- I don't want to mess with the chain all the time)

    But the TRIKE chain is just as light or lighter than the 410 and still allows for play. The plates are smaller verticly- so if you're a hard motoring guy with a heavy body or bike and you've had any trouble breaking chains from anything but misallignment the Trike chain may not be for you.

    http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=41032

    But as an ex-road cyclist for 14 years, who wants to maximize both pedal and roll- I've used two of them now for almost two years withourt a problem- and they really roll smoother.

    Has anyone here mentioned greasing the sprockets inside the cover?- that helps roll too and QUIET.
     
    #11 Nashville Kat, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012

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