A serious question. Don't laugh.

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle Welding, Fabrication and Paintin' started by moonerdizzle, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. moonerdizzle

    moonerdizzle New Member

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    Does any one know what alloy these china motors are? I work at an anodizing factory and have been thinking bout anodizing or hard coating some engine parts. The line ops need to know the alloy though so they know how much juice to run threw the parts with out burning (melting) the parts.
     
  2. Matheneyr3

    Matheneyr3 Member

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    Nothin to laugh at- Good question.....wish I knew the answer. Maybe some of the members here might know and chime in-
     
  3. azbill

    azbill Active Member

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    some kind of mix between low-grade aluminum and the scrap metal they sweep off the foundry floor would be my guess

    I have seen a crack get tigged with aluminum rod tho
     
  4. Allen_Wrench

    Allen_Wrench Resident Mad Scientist

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    It's not T6, I can tell you that.
     
  5. CTripps

    CTripps Active Member

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    Does the factory have a testing lab? If so, find out how small a piece they would need to be able to test it. Many of us have junk parts left on the bench from various mishaps and breakdowns. (For instance, I have a jug that's cylinder has been gouged too deeply to rebore by a broken ring, no longer useful as anything but a pencil holder ...some pics here). Could be that all someone might need would be a small piece of a fin from somewhere low down on the jug to do what they do. If that's all they need, a few minutes with a hacksaw and a mailing address and I could have samples heading your way.

    A problem that could come up though is consistency. I mean when they make a batch of parts, is the material going to be the same as a batch made 6 months before or 6 months after? For all we know the foundry may not have much quality control in that regard either. The QC certainly varies greatly in the rest of the motor and kit.
     
  6. DaveC

    DaveC Member

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    It's whatever scrap aluminum they could buy on the open Chinese market, most likely bumpers from '77 Vega's and old beer can pull tabs. Your problem with them is the bores are hard chromed, I don't know about any other plating you could do without messing that up, at least with the jugs.
     
  7. moonerdizzle

    moonerdizzle New Member

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    i plan on getting the bore and piston Nickasil coated at work. So Im not too worried about the chrome lining. Well I think I might send a mag or clutch cover threw and see what happens.
     
  8. steampunk

    steampunk New Member

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    thats prob the best idea mooner....i know that one of my motors has at least 3 diff grades of alum in it...the jug and case are diff...and the covers are diff again entirely...granted this motor is a hodgepodge of old stuff...but the fact still remains...i think you are on the right track of trying a couple pcs out...just do them in their own containment ...wouldnt want something important to get f-ed for sake of testing
     
  9. DaveC

    DaveC Member

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    I'd just DFL the piston skirts and let it go at that. Can you put NickaSil over hard chrome? Plating both the piston and cylinder you will run into interference from not enough clearance between the cylinder wall and the piston. I'd bet it seizes up when it gets hot.
     
  10. moonerdizzle

    moonerdizzle New Member

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    I'm acid dipping the cylinder and honing out all the chrome and then coating it. After that im going to hone out the cylinder again till shes back into specs.
     
  11. dmb

    dmb Active Member

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    i think the proper ID of the alloy is slag
     
  12. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    I recommend staying away from Nickasil coating the piston.
    If you want to coat it with something that will greatly benefit it Moly coat or teflon coat the piston skirts and ceramic coat the piston crown.
    Double check all clearances before final assembly.

    Of course up grade the wrist pin bearing too, or it could lay to waste all your hard work.
     
  13. moonerdizzle

    moonerdizzle New Member

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    Several people on the forum here said that the temps get to high for a teflon coated skirt. If a teflon coating would work do you think this would work?
    Pioneer Metal Finishing - Hard Lube
     
  14. rustycase

    rustycase Gutter Rider

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    LOL

    probably the truth of the matter
    rc
     
  15. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    I cannot comment on the coating from Pioneer Metal Finishing without asking them what the temperature specs are as well as the proven successful applications that they have done.
    As for the temps getting too hot for teflon, I cannot dispute other folk's experiences, only share my own.

    My experience:
    All I can say is I have installed pistons in air cooled 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines with teflon coated skirts as well as ones with Moly coated skirts and never had problems with either. Teflon buttons are still used in place of wrist pin clips in some applications and hold up very well, although I must say that they are not installed in a high friction area of the piston.

    Experience and speculation:
    My teflon coated frying pan also sees very high temperatures as well and I have never has a problem with it, but then again I do not vigorously rub it with a piece of metal at 9000 cycles per minute either.
     
  16. moonerdizzle

    moonerdizzle New Member

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    Tomorrow when I go to work I'll ask about the temp specs on their coating. Maybe I can get other peoples done for little cost on week ends if there is any interest in coated pistons.
     

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