Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

dogcatcher said:

Here is an idea to look at, his following the engineering principles does not apply, but his construction might give you and others some ideas. http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/led-sled-sidecar-project.26096/

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this really nice build and thread. I also will be using motorcycle tube clamps for frame connection, but not bar clamps. There was one photo of the Steve McQueen 1919 Indian Daytona mounted with a Flexicar and this is actually the basic size and stance I'm shooting for, but with a much smaller wheel on the car. I also want the frame close to the ground like this builder set his up, but I like the shell height much shorter...top of the car below the height of the wheels.

Rick C.

I remember Anne posting in the sidecar thread that she greatly favored leaf spring forks for sidecar rigs & that Ludwigs 25%of wheelbase was golden for wheel lead and this is what I intend to start with. This and that experiment on the toe in and lean out on the bike.

Rick C.

Ludwig II said:

I'm going to stop now before itbecomes a career. A historical view:

https://occhiolungo.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/wicker-sidecars/

Click to expand...

Before you go Ludwig, I'd been planning an air/shock combination setup to spring the car wheel, but both Curtis & yourself have mentioned using trailer hub suspension. I'm seriously thinking a right hand (passenger side U.S) half axle torsion spring setup would be pretty trick, especially if it were mounted on a sturdy pedestal & upside down. This would permit the low chassis height I'm looking for. I've a supplier who will supply me with whatever rating required over 250Lbs. with hub less swing arm. I won't require the hub since I'm running moped hub & brake assembly.

A clearer explanation of mounting the torsion spring assembly in the manner previously described might clarify things a bit. Normally a torsion suspension is mounted under frame with the torsion swing arm under no load at an angle of about 45 degrees. This setup increases the ride height which I don't want. By using a 4" square steel tube for a riser, cut to whatever length is required I can obtain the desired ride height of the frame. The torsion bar has to retain the same attitude as it would be in mounted under the frame in order to function, therefore the square tube riser will need to be notched to fit up the torsion spring half axle. A 3/16" plate, also notched, welded on top of the riser & drilled to match the 3" center, 4 bolt pattern of the spring assembly locks it all in place. Pretty simple to add a slip plate setup for adjusting toe in at the base of the riser.

My plan is to spring the rear of the car using 2 half length utility leaf springs. Buy one and cut in half, like I did with the leaf fork setup my Simplex is running. I'll simply pivot the front of the shell on Oilite bushings. With the leaf springs located outboard of the body shell, the body's ride height can be kept minimal.

Thanks for all the input & please continue with more. Rick C.

Really nice fab skills and shop, but I've only just sold my own machine shop & frankly don't want much more than hand tools at this stage of life. I've still a key & permission to use the shop day or night but other than visits I've not had the urge to set my hand to any of the machines.

Rick C.

Cut & assembled the basic frame work for the hack. !" d.o.m. tube with stainless tube couplers. These allow me to experiment with different layouts and tube positioning without cutting welds loose each time I'd like to see a change.
Cross braces are 18" but may end up using longer, like I said easy to change with the s.s. couplers.

I ordered the torsion spring axle without a hub and a new utility trailer leaf spring for the car shell as well, same spring rate I used to build the leaf spring fork on the Simplex. So this will be a sprung body as well as springing the car wheel.

It's a start! Rick C.

Here's the 18"d.o.t rated wheel,looks tiny but stands about 23"with mounted tire.
It's positioned at approximately the forward lead position, in front of the rear axle, that is 25% of the total wheelbase of this bike.

Rick C.

I have an additional wheel and tire to mount on the back as a spare. Both have hubs drilled for mounting disc rotors. So the car wheel will be equipped with a disk brake, foot operated brake pedal mounted on the car frame.

Kayak body is approximately 26" in width, 16" in height and length 6' to 6-1/2'. With 4" ground clearance on the car frame the total rig height shouldn't total much more than 22". Adults will need to be very limber to get in & especially to get out, but the grab bars should help. Easy mount for a Lab though!

Bike wheelbase is 53". and I'd like the car shell to not extend past the rear or front wheel so 6 & 1/2' length at most...

Outside width looks to be about four ft. from bike frame to out side of wheel hub; Primary reason is the kick starter has to clear the shell body & the wheel torsion spring requires 8" extra before adding the wheel. Not knowing if this is an abnormal amount of stick out for a rig or not, but it's 8" wider than I'd estimated earlier.

I should have the both the leaf spring & the torsion spring in hand ten days from now. I've also narrowed my kayak donor shell down to three choices, all 8 footers. Though I found one 10 foot that could be easily cut to fill the bill. It's 4" wider though. I'm really not in a hurry on the Kayak shell 'cause last year they were discounted significantly after the holiday season.

I've considered this particular project for more than two years now and feel that it's going to be lots of fun putting the pieces together and scary as **** testing the beast...The alligator gar car may take more than a few bites out of the Old guy!

Rick C.

Ludwig II said:

The torsion and leaf springs will have different rates and periodicity of response, which will be good for the passenger and outfit. I've seen things fall apart when resonances coincided.

Click to expand...

Your up late Ludwig. This is good insight sir and I'm hoping it's an aid to keeping the plastic kayak body intact. I will be reinforcing the shell with some marine grade plywood, plastic resin & cloth at the high stress points, I feel that a real challenge in this build is to prevent the hull from cracking in multiple locations. Springing correctly is one factor to avoid damage & effective mounting of the shell another.

I like the coupling of the old school leaf springs with the torsion spring not only for the reasons you've mentioned but also they visually contrast well & are so uncomplicated in nature. I may eventually have to add some rebound control on the wheel, but for now I'm kinda' keeping it simple.

What do you favor for toe in on a small road rig? Bike lean 1 to 2 degrees away from the rig; all as a staring point setup?

Also what's your read on weight proportion between bike and hack, loaded and unloaded?

Rick C.

I'm mixed on the car brake, but yeah I'll try it out, but may not like it. I grew up utilizing turn brakes on field tractors & know how dramatic the effects are on super heavy slow moving implements. On a light rig a heavy brake & perhaps any brake at all can cause dramatic, read that deadly, consequences. I'm determined to test the outside brake with great caution during all braking...not just in turns to the right!!

I now have a disc brake also on the rear of the Simplex.

Rick C.