Magic Pie 3 and Smart Pie by Golden Motors Comparison

25lbs vs 10lbs makes for a felt difference regardless of performance category. Sounds as though the 'Smart' Pie is a geared setup; ie, small motor in hub spinning 3-5000rpms geared down by planetary gears also inside hub.

Nope, it's direct drive like it's big brother.

Pretty good efficiency with the magic pie, looks like you're getting 28wh/mi at 28mph! That's awesome.

I guess according to http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/ the HS3540 has about that efficiency at that speed (72v/40a at 55% throttle) but draws about 65 wh/mi at about 45mph.

I know that sealing motors tend to suck water during heating/cooling cycles in wet weather, but I still like the idea of a sealed (instead of fan-cooled) hub motor. It also makes it possible, in the future, to hot-rod it by filling it with oil and pushing more into it; reports say it'll take 5-6kw alright when it's filled with oil, and the no-load draw doesn't change.

That said... the magic pie is cheaper, lighter, and it would force me to pedal up to 35mph so I'd actually have to get some exercise =)

What I find intriguing is the smart pie. Looks like great performance in such a light package. I imagine that it'd be fun to have a road-bike smart-pie, mess with the spandex. When I get this bike together, my wife will want one-- I know it! And she's no sissy, but she might want a smaller one.

Can't wait to get my bike tomorrow night and figure out how many batteries I can fit in it =D

Hey, Paul.
Do you need any help of the battery part ?
we have the same model with Golden Motor 48V 10Ah silver Aluminum case battery...

Regards,
Robin.

Here's a question I've been wanting to ask.

How is the duribility of the Magic pies or other rear set ups?

I'm one of those guys that loves to still jump curbs and ride in the dirt. Will the hard shocks of landing or the constant vibration of off roading destroy or drastically reduce the life of the hub?

I hope Paul doesn't mind if I usurp his thread to throw in my two bits, bit I've a suspicion I may be a little less nice to my bike than he is w/his... I could be wrong tho, maybe he secretly longs to be a NYC bike messenger or something heh

It's kinda tough to say as everything is comparative, but I'd hazard the generality of saying that the GMMP hub drive wheels are as strong or even stronger than the average mountain bike wheel w/massively oversized axles (the flats are as wide as the dropouts, not the threads), double wall alloy rims, sealed bearings & it's the entire side cover(s) that takes the impact load not the internals and ofc they've really short spokes (the shorter the spoke the stronger it is)...

...not to say they're indestructible but I tend to ride somewhat aggressively, hopping curbs & potholes (& sometimes failing, which is worse ofc lol) taking the occasional trail to who knows where & given our roads often have no shoulders, or if they do they're torn up & rough - yet I've still had no perceivable damage, no need to tune or adjust even the spokes & no issues whatsoever with the motor or it's operation. Here's a pic of a bearing & the axle to give you an idea;



Jus' as a BTW - I did have the wheel rebuilt with a slightly wider double wall alloy, but I did this to have matching disc only rims front & rear, not due to a strength concern.

This isn't really a "durability" issue but initially I did have a bit of a problem with the axle trying to work it's way out of the dropouts, made worse with any major shock or ongoing vibration - but this was a simple fix, I just roughed up the surface of the tabbed washers by cutting a bunch of slots in it w/a dremel;



...if I were to build a dedicated jumper/off road beater I'd probably add torque arms (looks similar to coaster brake arms) to provide additional protection against this, though it's not been a problem since a lil extra never hurt I figure.

Overall I'd venture that it's not the hub motor's durability that would be a question, but the integrity of the battery tray/mount/rack in "extreme" usage & circumstances, the 16+ pounds getting slammed repeatedly, thrown around & crashed... not a huge problem w/a little creativity & forethought, but a little tricky with the fully suspended bike I'd prefer for such.



BTW - the above is the now outdated MP2, but the current MP3 shares a very similar structure w/just a relocated internal controller & better connectors... I dunno diddly about the 'Smart Pie' except that it's smaller & slightly less powerful but lighter than it's big brothers *shrug* basically just what Paul has posted.

Thanks Barely,
I'm still in the process of gathering info and drawing up the plans for the batteries. I'm fortunate that I have access to a complete machine shop (Pipelyne) so I've changed my mind on plexiglass and will be making a aluminum box to carry the batteries. That way Dean can weld it in place and make it look custom.

One thing I forgot to ask is: Are you happy with 48 volts? I know I wanted to go with 72 but I don't want all that extra weight and the box might be too big and awkward looking in the frame.
Thanks

Well... it's a trade off really & I think it's got more to do with what you want/need from the ride than anything else. Given the limitations of battery storage all ebikes are very much a compromise - you can have speed, you can have range, but to have both becomes quite a challenge as one will always effect the other.

I use my 48v 1000w setup as a cruiser/commuter mostly so while speed is nice, I'm more interested in range & ridability, with my older MP2 & a 15ah LiFePO4 I get 26mph for about 30miles, just about perfect for my needs & the bike isn't particularly heavy or cumbersome. I wouldn't mind a little more range ofc, but to get it doesn't seem worth the added cost, bulk & weight.

While I'd like more speed, well... the GMMP hub motors are variable voltage but only rated for 24/36/48v @ 250-1000w operation, so I'd have to replace the motor with something else... and hub motors in excess of 48v are getting somewhat exotic - there's some available but they're mostly getting into the realm of custom built/wound setups, if I were to do this I'd most likely choose a mid-drive as there's a lot more options & they seem more cost effective. However given my range & ridability interests, these "high power" setups don't appear to be a viable choice for me, they'd be more of a fun toy and less the tool I need...

So I suppose yes, I am happy with the 48v 1000w 15ah setup, far happier than I thought I'd be, though I'd probably have chosen the 20ah battery had I known what I was going to do with it at the time - but is 1.3hp & less than 30mph enough for you?

Well, only you can answer that lol


edit: I had the thought that if you're interested in acceleration & off-road riding more than top speed or range, a dual hub motor setup may be something to think about - it won't get you more maximum speed, but it'd get you there faster & that combined with the traction & low end grunt of dual motors might be kinda nifty on the trails. Though they're less powerful - I'd think about dual 'Smart Pies' for this to keep the weight & power consumption down, but ofc this would mean a small sacrifice in speed... tho there'd prolly be a gain in range *shrug* again, it'd be your call

Has anyone tried running a smart pie at 72v?

I imagine it'd be fine to run it at that voltage in a small wheel, but the kv is probably too high for >26"ers.

paul said:

I am going to try and give a comparison of the golden motor magic pie 3 motor and the new smart pie motor. I am using a trek 3500 disk mountain bike and only switching out the 2 wheels with the motors on them. Using same controls battery ect. Only difference is the smart pie I have a mountain bike tire and the magic pie I have a street tire on which really doesn’t make much difference. Both tires at 55 lbs. myself I weight 210 lbs. The battery I am using is a golden motor 48 volt 10 ah battery.

……………………………………………………………Magic Pie……………………………………Smart Pie
Speed flat surface………………………………28mph……………………………………………..24mph
Distance before charge no pedal assist..17 miles………………………………………..21miles
Regenerative Braking……………..helps stopping big time………………………….very little help braking
Hill climbing steep mountain…..slows to around 17mph………………………….drops down to 12 mph
Quietness………………………………………..…quite…………………………………………………..even quiter
Handling………………………………………………good…………………………………………………..great
Weight………………………………………………..25lbs………………………………………………….10lbs.
Power from stopped position……………..…..good……………………………………………….fair
Coasting or freewheeling......................good........................................great

The regen braking I do not know how much it charges the battery however my research says not a whole lot. I like the regen because it uses the motor to help slow you down. As far as hill climbing both motors will do 20mph uphill with pedal assist. Best way I can explain pedal assist is it is like pedaling down hill to get more speed however you are going up hill. About the same amount of strength needed. Distance per charge can be increased significantly by using pedals to help start and when climbing any hills
I have about 1000 miles on the magic pie and 100 and the smart pie. I like them both however I will most likely stick with the smart pie. Reasons is I like the way it handles and also 15 lbs lighter is a lot when carrying up the stairs to my condo lol. The magic pie 3 I usually ride around 25mph so the difference in speed is next to nothing in the way I ride.

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Hey Paul,

Have you ever tried to play with the controller settings? I don't own a magic pie hub, nor an ebike. But I have been looking around at the various parts and I believe you may be able to connect the hub/controller to a pc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPMYxxDB0Q

This video shows various things you can change. You were talking about things like speed and regen, those look like things you can play with. Maybe it's all maxed out on your smartpie, but it might be neat to play with anyway.

Man, I gotta try an E-build.