Board-track style tires

42blue15 · #1 11-02-2009, 11:47 PM

This is a question about tires, but only as it relates to board-track-era cycles (from 1900 to 1920 or so).
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I am considering attempting to make my own tires, so that I can have ones that look better than what is available. This will be so that I (and possibly others) can obtain tires that--while not the exact same dimensions--will at least have the correct tread styles and colors (something so far no commercial MTB tire company has been able to do). I haven't ever worked with molding rubber before, but all the people who say it can't be done have never tried it themselves and can't explain to me exactly why it can't be done--so I'm going to give it a spin, more or less.

What I already know is that all the required materials are available separately. I have some other things going on so it may be a month or two before I start messing with any of it.

There's plenty of Chinese tire companies that will happily do custom production work and they could do it much cheaper and better on their factory equipment than I could by hand, but there's two problems with them: most have a minimum order quantity of one 20-foot container of tires, and the cost of tooling a new tire tread mold is tens of thousands of dollars,,, and you don't even own it after you pay for it, you're just paying them to make a mold that they keep. (-Not that you would really have much use for the tire mold on your own, but the point is that even if you decide you no longer want their services, then they are free to crank out tires on a mold you paid your own money to build-)

Of all the photos I've found so far, I have only found three different basic tread styles shown in use on motorcycles, with some variations in tire color.
See this page:
Welcome to old motorcycle tires

If you can produce a vintage photo showing another style of tire tread, I'd like to see it. I have searched quite a lot already but only in English-language pages. If you can read other languages you may find things I missed.

Also note that for this purpose, only vintage photos are useful as evidence. Any modern restoration may have used the incorrect tires simply because it was one that was cheaper or easier to obtain than the proper tire, or they couldn't find any information that said what the proper tire really was.
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bairdco · #2 11-03-2009, 12:05 AM

your link didn't work for me.

there's a few china companies that make the same tread styles as vintage bicycle tires, chengshin and uh... i can't think of the one that makes the old schwinn typhoon tires, they're uh... grand tycoon, i think.

you can still find NOS vintage tires on auction sites, but a lot of those are already dry-rotting, and i wouldn't trust them to go fast.

coker tires have some real vintage ones now and then. i dunno if they go into limited production, or if they just keep pulling them out of their...warehouse, but they keep showing up every once and a while. like these: B.F.GOODRICH BICYCLE RED - Coker Tire

there's also a guy on that big auction site that has blackwall BFG's for 20 bucks a piece.

26 X 1.75 VINTAGE BF GOODRICH BICYCLE TIRES - eBay (item 310144899123 end time Nov-22-09 11:44:52 PST)

i also know that a lot of the old time racers used to cut their own treads into slick type firestone and goodyear tires, or they were specially made by the factory.

but making your own?

go for it. that's way outta my league, but if you could make some that work, that'd be pretty darn cool.

(edit) i just found this page at coker tire: Clincher Motorcycle Tires - Coker Tire if you want to spend some real money, there ya go.

dmar836 · #3 11-03-2009, 12:07 AM

Quite an ambitious project. Good luck!

"NOSKID" tires were legit for the time. "Authentic" tires were not wire beaded so were in danger of stretching and rolling off. I doubt you want to be that authentic.
Is this for 26" tires only? Firestone and Coker make good period MC tires - some in 26". Felt and a few other companies are starting to release some much better bicycle tire designs IMO. The actual 3" MC tires of the like are between $158 and $225 or so.
They are out there so I was just wondering about your niche and price point.

Dave
KC

42blue15 · #4 11-03-2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmar836

Quite an ambitious project. Good luck!

"NOSKID" tires were legit for the time. "Authentic" tires were not wire beaded so were in danger of stretching and rolling off. I doubt you want to be that authentic.

The point of this is to have tires that look as authentic as possible, but that will fit on modern 26" 559 ISO MTB wheels.

Quote:

Is this for 26" tires only? Firestone and Coker make good period MC tires - some in 26". Felt and a few other companies are starting to release some much better bicycle tire designs IMO. The actual 3" MC tires of the like are between $158 and $225 or so.
They are out there so I was just wondering about your niche and price point.

Nobody makes authentic looking tires that will fit on MTB wheels. Except for the red BF Goodrich specified as a bicycle tire, the tires that Coker sells are vintage-type clinchers in fractional sizes. The bead diameter is wrong for MTB rims, and they won't fit on any modern bicycle wheels at all because the tire bead is different. [edit added] (-Actually, the diagram below is not exactly correct.... It was only the motorcycles that used the vintage clincher rims and tires--the bicycles at that time were all using tubular tires on wooden rims....)

Some of the $15 Cheng Shin tires are nearly-perfect copies of early tires (#1 or #2 below) but the tire styles date back to 1930 or so (the ad below is from 1939). They miss the 1900-1920 board-track era.

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dmar836 · #5 11-03-2009, 11:13 AM

OIC. I hope there is enough demand for use on MTB rims.
Honestly, and I'm not criticizing your idea, if authentic looks is important, the rolled steel rims from Worksman are about the closest look I've found. They are pretty much dead on in design and construction to period MC rims except they are 26"(I know there were 26" and 28" available then). Heavy as lead but right on. You can buy them alone to lace to other hubs as well. I hope the use of modern clincher tires is okay on them - I haven't ridden mine enough to really tax them.
Granted, you can't use rim brakes on them as on a MTB but authenticity would be out the window there. I started my mockup with some HD box alloy rims but I guess I just didn't like the look compared to the rolled steel rims.
Dave
KC

dmar836 · #6 11-03-2009, 11:56 AM

Blue,
Here are a few scans from Victor Page's book.

And finally, I thought this was interesting. Not just the pressures but that the Goodyear racing tires are skinnier than all but the smallest Goodyear street tires.

butchl · #7 11-03-2009, 11:27 PM

Wow: Thanks , Great information. I have a Coker on back and a Worksman on front.

tyrslider · #8 11-04-2009, 01:23 PM

26"x 2.125 cruiser tires do not have same dia bead size as 26" mtb tires. 26" mtb tires are not safe on cruiser rims in that if you get a flat they will come off the rim and do bad stuff.

Venice Motor Bikes · #9 11-04-2009, 03:36 PM

If your looking for good looking tires for a board tracker? You can't go wrong with FAT SLICKS!!

42blue15 · #10 11-05-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrslider

26"x 2.125 cruiser tires do not have same dia bead size as 26" mtb tires. 26" mtb tires are not safe on cruiser rims in that if you get a flat they will come off the rim and do bad stuff.

Ummm, , , , what?

Pretty much all 26"-wheel cruiser and MTB bikes sold today use the same size ISO-559 wheels and tires (at least in the USA). There are other "26-inch" sizes of bicycle rims and tires, but they are so rare now that most shops don't stock them at all.
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