Question for the the 4 strokers out there

[butchatron]

I've been going over and over all the info on the 2 stroke kits, and am a little weary about plunking down my cash for one. Seems all I hear is that these things are junk. So I'm curious about the 4 stroke kits. They seem to have the same parts (tank, throttle, sproket, ect.) but the engines are Hondas, a name we all know and trust. So I'd like to hear from you guys who have these kits. How reliable are they? What issiues have you had with instalation/maintanance?

[BarelyAWake]

Well... I'ma 2-stroker so I'm in the "enemy camp" lol, but I've heard while the engines themselves are very reliable the drive systems are somewhat problematic. I've also heard rumors that not all the "Hondas" are Hondas... but that could be just BS.

I only mention this because I too have been somewhat interested in the four strokes and have a soft spot in my heart for Honda. I'm interested to see what others post.

I will say that while the 2 strokes aren't exactly Swiss watches, they make up for that by being very inexpensive, extremely simple, and easy to work on... It's all trade-offs

[butchatron]

some good points there. My real concearn is the quality of the engine. I'm fairly astute when it comes to mechanics, but I want to ride more then I want to wrench. One thing I concidered was just getting the 'kit only' package and then pick my own engine to mount.

[azbill]

I have 2100+ miles on my HuaSheng 49cc (honda clone) since may...
the only mechanical work I have done to the engine is change the oil and fill the gas tank
these engines seem to be very reliable with minimum effort/upkeep
I am expecting 10k+ out of this engine

[MotorbikeMike]

Hi gang, well I'm a heavy rider, and have been doing this for a long time. At first, there were only WhizzerUSA and the Chinese 2-stroke from Angelwings which was Steve Miller's company selling under the brand name SpitFire.

I bought 14 of those and still have 2 of them (sold the rest, I never rode any single one long and hard enuf to blow it up). I then switched to Grube as a Distributor. I sold, repaired warrantied, and witnessed devastation with some of those engines for a long time. With the 2-stroke, the reduction inside the engine is usually not the problem, the engine itself blows up, or wears dramatically.

I can tell you this I LOVE my 4-strokes, and only get on a 2-stroke when I am repairing it for someone else! I should keep one running here for customer test rides, but I have been busy, and unmotivated to do that.

Gearbox reliability: here is where the rubber meets the road on the 4-stroke! The engines are built for a variety of tasks and are well-proven. The HS clone of Honda is VERY good, and many times will outrun the Honda (maybe the cam is a lil different?), and seems to have a very long life, tho no-one I know has owned and ridden one long enuf to either wear it out, or surpass 5,000 miles YET.

I did some work on and rode 3 of the RS35's on 2 different drive systems, and a GX35 on another system altogether and they are too small, under-torque and did not impress me for the heavy rider.

Drive systems: well here we go, Early hoot had a weak cold-rolled clutch bell that the shoes of the clutch would cut the bell into 2 pieces, mine lasted approximately 50 miles, it was fun, but it was a bust! NOW do know that the Hoot improved that feature using a hardened bell that lasts much longer BUT they have a bushing in the bell, and that rides directly on the crankshaft, wearing the crankshaft surface any time engine is running and the clutch is not fully locked. To me this is unacceptable!

Noise in the gearboxes: The one Staton that I built for a customer was quiet. Hoot's vary from a whine to a howl, as do the earlier Grube units (no longer produced?). In addition, there is a lot of discussion about how to lube the Chinese boxes, and since they are "seat of the pants" engineering, there was no real Factory answer as to what to put in them. In their defense, it is reported that one guy successfully rides a stage 2 Hoot, and several (more than a few?) successfully ride Grube gearboxes.

I have plenty of new Take-Off Hoot boxes for sale really cheap if anyone needs them. It would be of interest to you if Red66 and Houghmade gave their experiences with their bikes, as those are the two most prominent riders I'm aware of.

Enter the new age, EZ Motorbike with the Silent Power transmission, EZ Motorbike Q-matic, and Grube 4G drive. I know nothing except what I have read about the 4G so check Irish John's thread about it, seems like it might have some problems.

The EZ I do know, I rode prototype EZ for about 500 miles before I switched to a production Silent Power on my Honda. It works extremely well, and if you ever had a need to repair it, all parts are readily accessible. I intend to put another 100 or so miles on it at the Whiz-In Oct 10 2009. It is smooth, reliable, the drive system is so quiet that all you hear is the chain on the rear. The engine is better than it has a right to be, holding 8oz of oil in the crankcase, it is a lean-burn certified engine, as is the HS 50.

Q-matic: I have about 200 miles on mine now, and it is everything it is supposed to be, American Engineering, and the whole Reduction (Primary) is American made, built in USA! We use American clutch, in an American transmission plate with an American made cover, all Gears, Chains, Sprockets, belts, setscrews, keys, gizmo's, gadgets and widgets USA made, or purchased from USA sources and unwittingly imports! My Q-matic will be on the ride, with wifey behind the bars, looking for another 100 miles on it also!

Quenton has more miles on his Q-matic than I do, he can comment on his success separately.

For me the answer is simple, 4-stroke engine, as presented, is far superior in construction, and overall performance, tho it does cost more at the beginning, it will repay you with less maintenance (almost none on mine) less, to no parts vibrating loose all over the road, less noise, cleaner (in every way) no mixing, just pull in and fill up!

I vote 4-stroke every time, even tho there are more parts inside, they are well known, well presented, and will take care of them selves, and for a total bonus, the HS50 and the Honda GX50 will NEVER blow a head gasket, nor a base gasket, nor strip a head bolt, never carbon up a pipe, and they do not foul plugs (in my experience), these are common maintenance items on the 2-stroke that you will never deal with on your new 4-stroke.

[jbcruisin]

I have an EZ & love it. It just goes with no maintenance. I must admit that I took my outer cover off a few times to check it & just put the cover back on. At about 500 miles I replaced the front belt. $8.00 & 30 seconds. Just runs great. I have the manual clutch & rode a Q-matic auto clutch at the East coast rally & it was really smooth too. Here's pictures of mine.
Jay

[Buddy]

If you like fouled spark plugs, replacing piston rings, oil all over everything, carbon build-up, mixing oil in the gas, get a 2-stroke. If you just want to ride and not have to worry about anything but oil changes, get a 4-stroke.

[butchatron]

well I think you guys have succesfully answered my question: I will indeed pony up the extra dough for a 4 stroke kit. To be honest, the only reason I was inerested in the 2 stroke kits is because the motors themselves have a more 'classic motorbike' look, no plastic housing and pull start and what not. But looks aren't going to help me any stranded on the side of the road. After I build my bike, I plan to take long road trips with it (such as the Strugis rally, Daytona bike week, ect.) and I want to make sure the bike will get me there without having to carry an entire spare engine kit with me- which is what I've heard alot of the 2 stroke guys wind up doing.

[BarelyAWake]

o.O

First off I'd like to say I think given your interests you've made the right choice, there are some definite advantages with a 4 stroke. Quiet, smooth, needing only straight gasoline - it may be the closest to a "plug & play" setup there is short of an electric.

Having said that I'd like to point out that the 2 strokes aren't necessarily as bad as the picture painted here. Bear in mind the discrepancy between they sheer number of 2 stroke owners vrs 4 strokers - this alone would skew perspective on the problems. If only one out of a hundred engines are 4 strokers, of course you'll hear about a ton of 2 stroke problems and less about the 4s.

Another issue is the owners. The low price of the 2 stroke means that for many it's their first build, perhaps their first experience with an engine of any type. If you browse the pics here you'll note many "questionable" build techniques that someone more experienced would never contemplate. This too reflects on the "reliability" of the infamous 2 stroke, if someone thinks JB weld and hose clamps is a suitable motor mount - do you think they're treating their motor properly? Would they have fewer problems with a 4? I doubt it.

Yet another aspect of the 2/4 debate is abuse. Those interested in 4 strokes tend to be "easy cruisers" - generally an older age group and primary interested only in not pedaling, they may not be as inclined to scream their engine way past redline, constantly trying to defy the laws of physics and beating the snot out of their bike, motor, and themselves.

All of this adds up and may skew the reputation of an engine only designed to motorize a bicycle - not be a dirt bike.

Please remember I do like 4 strokes and I do think it may be the best choice for you - I just noticed a bit of hate that may be unwarranted. I have only one complaint about my 2 stroke vrs a 4 and that's noise. Other than that I've had no problems at all with mine and there are other aspects about the 2 stroke that I prefer. Oh and no - I don't actually carry a spare engine with me lol

When it comes down to it it's all about playing with toys, as such there's no "better" toy - just whatever makes you happy

[bandito]

In my neck of the woods we shoot 2 strokers and callem weed whackers!