First ride almost complete success.

GoldenMotor.com

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Finally finished putting the 28cc McCulloch on the old Schwinn Continental. After pulling a Mac 2816 weed wacker out of someone's trash a few years ago, I left it in the corner of the garage until about a month ago. I got it running, but the compression seemed like it might be a little weak, so I took it all apart (which I would probably have done anyway).

Some of the things that got done on it:

Cleaned all deposits from piston/cylinder (was hardly any).
Got a new ring from Frank Bowman. TIGHT fit - virtually no gap.
Trimmed flywheel fins - removed starter pawls.
Flipped carb over so the choke and mixture screws are where you can get at them. But this made more mods necessary.
Fabbed an adjustable choke lever.
Also made a new throttle lever - the tiny metal "tab" on the carb throttle shaft.
Bend in fuel line would have been too tight, so I made a plastic elbow.
New fuel lines and filter.
Aluminum spindle that fits over shaft and is tapped for threads by flywheel. Spindle is 5/8 OD for drive rollers and outboard bearing.
Tapped square hole in end of shaft for fine thread, hi-grade bolt. This prevents the spindle from screwing off when bump starting.
Made new outboard bearing holder/roller guard.
Steel plate for mounting.
Two tension spring holders. Each one pivots and holds two springs. When I had one tight spring on each side, I'd go through a few springs a year. Using two springs that aren't stretched as much solved that problem.
Cut all new gaskets. I even used real gasket paper this time. When I rebuilt my Homelite, I used the cardboard from a case of Old Milwaukee. You could see the Old Mil label on the intake gasket. Those gaskets worked fine (but I'd still recommend the real stuff).
Made throttle cable so it's easy to adjust, and can be taken on and off without having to re-adjust.

Etc... You get the idea.

It's a bump-start friction drive. So I pedalled up to about 10mph, dropped the motor, and she fired up. Had to fiddle with the choke for a bit, of course. I also was adjusting the high mixture screw. I was able to do this while riding because I have a brass tab soldered in the screw slot. That is, It WAS soldered in the slot. Popped off and fell out of my fingers. By then I had it adjusted pretty good anyways. So I was taking it kinda easy to break in the new ring and listen for anything amiss.

Well, she runs great! It's already faster than my old Homey, and I'm sure it will get a little stronger as it breaks in. I know it was getting around 30mph. Someday I'll have to check it with GPS (I don't have).

I was going to take more pictures during the build, but that didn't happen. I'll shoot and post some of the finished product. Someday. I'm tired.
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
Glad the Mac is a good runner! Sounds like a well engineered build. Once the Bowman ring seats drop starts might get interesting. What size roller is the Mac handling? I have a 50cc R/C engine on electronic ignition that might make a good candidate for an FD on an aluminum MTB I have. Might consider it. Congrats on your build!
 

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Close ups of motor. Notice the carb screw extension. I hate having to stop for adjustments. This one ain't falling off! But I may trim it down a bit.

I did take a few pics during the build...

Here's the motor bolted to the mounting plate. (1/8 inch hardened steel)
You can see one of the pivoting double-spring holders.

In the close-up of the spindle, you see the flywheel was trimmed down. The starter pawls can still be screwed back in if I ever need to run it on the weed wacker for tuning. Probably will never do that and I'll end up throwing away the trimmer head. The motor shaft had about a half inch of threads past the flywheel nut, so my aluminum spindle is treaded to screw on tight. I threaded the hole in the end of the motor shaft and ground down the washer to be a hair smaller than the spindle diameter. That spindle ain't goin' nowhere.

Next pic shows how it mounts on the bike. A Billet aluminum block clamps around seat stays. Block has hole and steel inserts. 5 1/2 inch carriage bolt is bolted on mounting plate and passes through block to pivot. Not shown is outboard bearing holder installed.

In my hand is the bearing holder with tension springs attached.

BTW, cannonball2, roller is 1 1/4. Homemade from hockey puck and steel spacer tapped for two set screws.

This thing was flying today! I actually eased her back a few times because of a slight speed wobble. Now I have to go over my wheels/tires and get everything nice and true. I can't believe 28cc goes this fast. I don't exaggerate (proud member of the 20mph club). Mind you, I'm not complaining about surplus speed.
 

Attachments

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
Looks like a great job, very impressive! My only concern is cooling. The engine is isolated from cooling air by the shroud that directed air from the fan through the cylinder. Its largely shielding the cylinder now. Maybe a simple scoop fabbed from aluminum sheet to catch ram air and force it throught the cylinder. Looks like a really well made FD that should run a lonf time.
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
Gosh, glad to hear it's worked out so well, A !

I had a Schwinn Continental a few years back that was a really big frame... it fit me well! And I realize it's like an old friend to you...

But gosh, I wish you were nearby so I could give you a mtb bicycle to use for your motorized bicycle project... You would be so much happier with the wider tires, different bars, and such.

What you have built is a FD racer! :)

Yep, I'd agree with CB2... the project could benefit greatly from improved airflow. In addition to the carb shield tin, IMO, you might benefit greatly from a different air cleaner, and exhaust. Both fabbed with the intent of increasing airflow to the cylinder, and away from it.

Best
rc
 

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I don't think cooling will be a problem. Here's why:

There was a minor amount of fin trimming on the front of the "frywheel" (pun). Half of the fins are on the back of the Mac's flywheel. My Homelite has no fins on back and I trimmed it much more, nearly finless, with no problems.

My steel mounting plate doesn't cover up much of the original aluminum mounting plate (shroud). Of course, when you take the motor out of the trimmer housing, the flywheel doesn't force air past the cylinder like it might have. But the trimmer also had this black safety cover [PHOTO].

I don't think there was more air blowing across that covered motor while standing still cutting weeds than while cruising all naked at +20mph (naked motor, not rider). When I get to the edge of town, I shut off motor and pedal around town, motor cooling nicely. Every time I get home, I blow everything down with the air compressor. FD's get dusty. Motor is cool enough to touch, but I wouldn't press my cheek on it; any of my cheeks.

It is something to consider. Now you've got me thinking. I might do a muffler mod that would be more like a pipe and expose the jug a bit more. I'm sure there will be more tinkering to come and I'll keep you posted.

Oh, btw rusty. This motor is likely going on my next bike, soon to come. It will be more laid back, without the "curly" road bike handle bars. But I don't see an mtb. Skinny tires for me. More friction-free. Agree?
 

Attachments

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
Oh yes, A.
I agree there is less friction/drag with a road bike tire.

it's just that I also rely upon the tire for a degree of suspension and protection of my running gear from road impact.

Also better turning, if there happens to be a bit of sand or gravel on the roadway.

I have been running a city slick type metro cruiser tire in the 1.95 size for a while, to give me the width, and also for less drag than a tire with more aggressive tread.

They also make tires with a higher center rib, for minimal contact and drag when in a straight-line direction, but then lays off to a more aggressive tread for turning movements at slower speeds.

Gosh, there's SO much available out there now! WoW!

lol
All it takes is $'s !

I run what I can get...
If I had the $'s I would probably buy the Maxxis Hookworms.

When I get a chance to work on my 22cc trimmer speed racer bike I'll run a 27 x 1 1/8 front, and some sort of 26 x 1.95 rear, or maybe a bit skinnier to cut drag, but it will only be for straight-line use to see how fast I can go.

Best
rc
 

pocdragon

New Member
Apr 30, 2011
128
1
0
RI
i love the new mac adam
super clean, and i have a soft spot inside for a skinny tire bike <3

some things to note:
your throttle cables could be alot shorter if you ran them along the top tube,

your motor shouldent overheat without the shroud and the fins cut, weedwackers werent ment to travel @ ~20mph so the moving air should be more then plenty

i suggest a power pipe, the secret to a 2stroke is the exhaust, you can easily double the power

this pipe is usually called "baja" or somthing similar, its ment for an hpi 25cc motor, and the exhaust flange should bolt right up.
http://www.largescaleforums.com/news/hpi-baja-5b-tuned-pipe/

KISS i always say
well done

Also better turning, if there happens to be a bit of sand or gravel on the roadway.

truth,
sand/gravel scares me when @ speed
my skinny road bike (24"x1.125) is my favorite, its the best imho efficency wise
but traction is the name of the game with FD Wasp bikes.
25CC's @30.4mph= WICKED SCARY
Good luck on your need speed.cs.
 

Whistle Tip

New Member
Feb 20, 2012
11
0
0
Orange County, CA
Well howdy, great job on the bike! I have started my first weed wacker bike for the sake of doing something with my friend on the weekends. But none the less i believe for a first bike we have the right idea. Anyway i have a few newbie questions, and seeing that you have been posting for quite a while, im sure you have had to entertain plenty of redundant questions but it is surely appreciated.

Well it appears that like you said, you bump start it, but generally is it more effective to remove the centrifugal clutch to then add the roller directly to the shaft?

And how specifically is it mounted. I have seen many people on these forums talk adimately about a sissor clutch system, or just a lift system, and from the pictures it looks like you used a pivot system. But its hard to tell simply from pictures.

Lastly, I have heard differant trials of differant rollers, i decide to pick up a 3x1 solid rubber roller, and from your pics looks like you yourself are using a rubber roller, but could you help in explaining how you attached it to the engine's shaft?

Well thanks a lot. I believe you posted once or twice on my last thread, and if you are compelled please visit my new thread: "the sledgehammer build"

gracias!
 

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Glad you like it, pocdragon!

Thanks for the tuned pipe info:

From tuned pipe link:

HPI Baja Aluminum Tuned Pipe Part Number:
Part #: 86690 - HPI Aluminum Tuned Pipe Set
MSRP: $139.00
Yikes! 140 bucks - Increase net horsepower. Decrease net worth. Decent looking pipe, though.

Yeah, these skinny tire bikes aren't for everyone. I use them because I happen to have collected a bunch over the years. I prefer them for pedalling, even though you have to treat them like they are made of breadsticks. Mountain bikes are better for motorizing in many ways. But I bet a lot of people who are disappointed with the power of a wacker motor on a mtb would be surprised how well they push a road bike.

Throttle cable would be shorter on top tube. But the carb needs the cable to pull from the bottom, so it would have a funky loop. Also, before I painted the frame 5 years ago, I added homemade cable bosses under the down tube. Both derailleurs and the throttle run along there nice and neat, and there is even a spare empty boss.
 

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Whistle Tip, glad to have another diy-wacker member.

I've never heard from anyone successfully using the existing clutch from a weed wacker. Those tiny cent clutches must burn up quick. It would be nice to have a cable operated throwout clutch just for starting and idling.

In the page 1 pics of this thread you can see how the mac is mounted. Motor mounted on steel plate. Big carriage bolt through plate (secured firmly with nut). Bolt goes through mounting block on frame's seat stays. So when roller is lifted off tire, plate rotates (vice versa).

This system worked well with my homelite motor. Not as well with the Mac. I'm in the process of changing everything now. I'm doing a belt-driven, larger-roller, friction-drive, using-too-many-hyphens, setup.

The way the mac is tilted put too much motor weight over the roller. At top speed it wants to get into a bouncy harmonic. If my wheel and tire were closer to perfectly concentric, it would probably be OK. And I could redo the plate with less motor tilt and/or the pivot point closer to the motor shaft. But the new design should be better.

Most hardware stores (Lowes for sure) sell "steel spacers". Basically a short piece of pipe. I drill and tap the spacer for a set screw. Using hole saws, I cut a rubber donut out of a hockey puck, epoxy the donut on the spacer. Slide spacer/roller onto shaft and tighten set screw.
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
You might be experiencing the engine hop due to insufficient down loading. I experienced it early on with my Lifan engines. The Mac has more power than the Homey, which might explain why the Mac is doing it versus the Homey. The springs look very light. It takes a good deal of down load to keep the engine frimly driving the tire. I have found the smaller rollers take quite a bit. Experiencing this with a 20lb 97cc torque monster will get your attention! I have hit a good balance between loading and clutch lift ability, and this problem never occurs now. The move to a belt driven roller is a good one. If you have clearance a 2+" is a good place to start. Set it up so you can easily change ratios with pulley size. Small ratio changes make a big difference with an FD. With My Schwinn Speedster I run a 2.6" roller direct drive for a top speed around 42mph@ 5500rpm. This makes for a nice relaxed cruise in the 30-35mph range, but kills some of the hill climb ability.
 

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Thanks for the tip, cannonball.

I was thinking exactly the same thing and tried increasing spring tension. The homey worked good with just under 30 lbs roller downforce on tire. I used a fish scale to measure how much pull to lift roller. Those springs might not be as light as they look (and there are 4 of them). I had put on stiffer springs and maxed out the fish scale (>50 lbs) without solving problem. The roller never actually hopped off, but you could feel a sort of rhythmic pulsing.

I really think it's just bad geometry with my design. I tilted the motor for a better fuel tank angle and clearance above spark plug. This put too much weight (inertia) over roller. If I wanted to keep this design for the mac, I would take off the fuel tank and position motor straight up or even tilted forward.

But I'm now working on the belt drive idea. I was looking for the flatter, timing/cogged belt style. Industrial supply places around here are too expensive and poorly stocked. I need to find an online source - any suggestions are appreciated. So I'm using v-belts. Pulleys are 1 3/4" drive and 3 1/2" driven. So roller diameter should end up around 2 1/4". I'll start with 2 1/2" - it's easy to sand them down smaller.

I've been wanting to do a belt/FD for a long time. Looking back in my old posts, me and Neat Times were talking about Zipcycles three years ago. I'm getting old.
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
V belts will drive you just fine. Lowracer uses 3/8 belts to drive his wheels directly with good results, even running high ratios. Might consider them for less frictional loss. A spring loaded idler is a good idea if you can work one in. Makes ratio changes a snap. I have run the adjustable pulleys with good results. They have around a 1/2" of range which is a great deal with a roller. Coupled with a spring idler ratio changes are super quick. Keep us posted sound interesting!
 

a_dam

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
351
0
0
Momence, IL
Thanks Dave. Proud to be on the video.

CB2, glad to hear someone is using v-belts successfully. Would have gone with 3/8 if I could find them around here. This kinda stuff is getting harder to find in the hardware stores. I think people rarely fix their own appliances anymore, and if they do, these new gadgets probably take their own "special" parts, not a pulley or bearing from Ace hardware. You can find a million things online, but I don't want to add $9 shipping for a $9 belt (and wait 3 days).

So the pulleys I could finally find take 1/2" belt. I hope that fat belt bending around the small (1 3/4) drive pulley doesn't make more heat energy than kinetic energy.

Oh, and the quality of some stuff is sad. My 3 1/2" pulley from Chicago Die Casting makes me ashamed of the "Made in USA" label. Thin aluminum with rough casting flash and not very round. Roundness is a quality you might expect in a pulley, don't ya think? Do a google search on them and see how crappy they look. I'm glad it will only be spinning at half motor speed.

The spring loaded idler is a good idea. We'll see how the belt tensioning and pulley changes go. I expect after everything is worked out, I'll only make adjustments for belt and roller wear occasionally.
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
Here is a pic of the spring idler and variable pulley. It adjusts from 3.5" to 4" just by loosening a set screw and screwing the outer sheeve in or out. Kind of a manually adjusted variable trans. The spring idler just takes up, or adds belt as nec. Saves swapping rollers on a more complex system than a direct drive. 1/2" on the belt is several roller sizes. I think NAPA can source you 3/8 belts if you have one locally.http://motorbicycling.com/showpost.php?p=350339&postcount=2