HF 52cc Idle but will not take throttle

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Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
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I've got a Harbor Freight 52cc waterpump engine. (i.e. same/similar engine as 49cc MonsterScooter). It fires right up, but will not take throttle. It bogs down and stalls when i apply throttle. It only will start with the lean/mix screw all the way in as well.

I have tightened all carb. screws to make sure no air was getting in.

Any additional steps to troubleshoot would be appreciated. Thanks,
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
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UPDATE:

Engine starts, and now accepts throttle if I tweak the lean/mix spring screw on the carb. But it doesn't last long. It will run and sound good under throttle for about 30 secs. then it goes back to bogging down again and will not accept throttle, then it stalls completely. If and when it starts bogging down and I re-tweak the screw again while its running then it sounds strong again. But it will not stay strong without having to constently monkey with the lean/mix spring screw on the carb while its running.

Any ideas to get this engine running consistent? Thanks,
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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up north now
I would check the float, it sounds like it's either sticking in the up (off) position, or is set too low. Also confirm good fuel flow, it may just be running out due to insufficient flow.
 

Albula vulpes

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Mar 16, 2010
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Thanks,

I don't think this engines carb. has a float. It has a needle. It will start up, but when I to put throttle on it, it sounds like it bogs down or is sucking air. However If and when after I start it and it is idling, and I adjust the screw on the carb. that has the spring on it while applying throttle, it will then accept the throttle and not bog down/suck air. But then goes back to the way it was before after about 30secs. of running it.

I have no idea what the problem is and am very fustrated. I have two of these engines. The first one will not start now, so I'm working on my second backup one. And now I'm pedaling again. It sucks.

Thanks for any insight or ideas to get this engine running,
 

NEAT TIMES

New Member
May 28, 2008
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Sound like it is running out of fuel. I have been having trouble with all my mab`s, carb problems. I guess it is from the alcohol in the fuel. Trouble with the float style carbs and the diaphram type.

Sea foam really gummed them up worse. I need to get the new improved sta-bil for corn gas! It sure is a pita.

Ron
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
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Thanks NEAT,

Does anyone know what steps I should take to find out if the carb./engine is not getting a "fuel flow"? The only thing I can think of is to clean the fuel filter and check to make sure the intake hose is clear.

Another question. I have a Honda gx31. Could I take the carb. off of this 4 stroke, and put it on one of the HF 52cc 2 stroke engines and it would work?


I can not believe how hot it was yesterday in South Florida. The high was 89, and it was not fun pedaling around in it. Glad we will be getting some cooler weather soon, and glad my ass is not freezing up in the N.C. mountains.

Thanks again,
 

MarkSumpter

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Nov 27, 2010
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OK as I am new here and really do not know this engine on an intimate basis I will suggest that you take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

First off this does sound like a lean mix problem to me or maybe a clogged exhaust. I assume it is a float type carb. The best place to diagnose this quickly is at the spark plug. If it is carbonized and black it denotes a rich burn, if it is whiteish grey it denotes a lean burn. Sometimes this can be the tell all in engine diagnosis.

I would suggest to first remove the carb and drain it of fuel as well as the tank. Make sure that there are no obstructions between the tank and the carb and that it is free of leaks between the tank and carburator.

Then remove the carburator from the engine and separate the carb bowl from the carburetor body.

Make sure that the float travels freely in an up and down manner.

Next remove the float retainer pin and the float and metering valve clean and inspect it for wear around the seat point (if worn replace).

Then use an alcohol swab to clean the needle seat and blow compressed air through the fuel inlet to make sure it is free of obstructions.

Re install the float and needle metering valve and place a piece of fuel line on the fuel inlet and invert the carb, Apply a small amount of pressure to the line by blowing into it and ascertain that the float is holding pressure in a horizontal position when closed and that it opens and fully seats when moved upwards and fully seats with slight pressure on the float when closed.

Next remove the fuel adjustment screw and blow compressed air through the mixture jet to insure there are no obstructions.

Remove the main jet and clean.

Reassemble the carb and make sure the bowl gasket is properly seated and then proceed to reinstall the carburetor to the engine making sure that the gaskets seal to the piston jug and there are no leaks.

Next step to diagnose is a big problem many people overlook. That is a muffler that has a spark arrestor or muffler that is clogged. If the Spark arrestor (which is usually a screen) is clogged it can be cleaned by heating it with a torch and scrubbing it with a wire brush. If you can disassemble the muffler do so and look for carbon obstructions and remove them.

While you have the exhaust off check the port for carbon build up and remove as necessary. This is also a good time to inspect the piston and ring. The exhaust side of the piston is the one that usually is one of the best diagnostic points of an engine and its history. While the intake can have some minor scratching from dirty air cleaners allowing crap into the engine they are usually clean and look shiny new because the have cool air and fuel coming in on that side. The exhaust side if well maintained might have a slight brownish enameling layer around the top and extending mid way down the cylinder but that is normal because of the hot exhaust gasses. You can position the piston and take a small screwdriver and push in slightly on the ring to tell if it has excessive carbon under it that may damage the engine and also check its up and down movement in the ring grove. This needs to be done with care to make sure not to damage the piston itself. If there is any evidence of a stuck ring or other deep scratches on the exhaust side it is time for more extensive maintenance and or parts replacement.

Once you have all of these steps gone through and if the engine is still not running properly and you know it is not a spark problem then chances are you probably have a crankcase or cylinder leak causing the motor to run lean. In that case see this post as I just had to go through these steps myself to find the leaks in my brand new engine:

http://motorbicycling.com/f52/basics-port-polish-port-matching-16646-6.html#post237700

As I am not sitting at an engine and typing off the cuff so to speak as I said take these words with a grain of salt and listen to any other replies.

Good luck man.
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
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First off this does sound like a lean mix problem.
Yea that is what I was thinking too. Last night I installed my Honda GX31 carb on this engine before I got any replies, but it was sucking too much air and I couldn't get it to start on the HF 52cc engine.

I put the HF 52cc stock carb back on and it started right up with the lean/mix spring screw turned all the way to the right, making it fully compressed. It idled well for several minutes, but would not take throttle. If I then turned the lean/mix screw to the left opening up the spring, it would then take throttle but only a short while again before bogging down or I would have to again turn the spring more to the left opening the spring to make it take throttle.

The engine sounds strong as **** when it will take throttle. I'm probably going to clean the fuel filter and check to make sure the fuel intake hose is not clogged or has any holes in it. If anyone else can see or know the problem from the additional info given, please chime in. It is nerve racking. I do not know engines very well. Thanks,
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
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O.K. so last night and this morning I was tooling with this thing........................




Last night I tore down the carb, cleaned and rebuilt it. The fuel filter is clean, the fuel hoses were checked. No leaks/holes. I didn't see a float in the carb. Where/What does it look like?


I started it up this morning............................................................

S.S.D.D.

Same Shi....... Different Day

It started with the spring screw tightened all the way in and it idled for long while and never stalled due to running out of fuel. I then applied throttle and it took it for a while but then wouldn't take it.

It seems that this engine will only start with the spring screw on the carb fully compressed, and then will only accept some throttle if I loosen it. This obviously can not be done while riding down the road, so it renders it useless for now....


I have two of these engines, thus two carbs. If I was to take the parts off the other engines carb, and replace them, putting them in place of the parts on this carb. WHAT PARTS WOULD YOU REPLACE IN LIGHT OF THE PROBLEM I'M HAVING?

Thanks for your time and suggestions. This is aggravating and fustrating. Thanks,
 

MarkSumpter

New Member
Nov 27, 2010
474
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Ohio
Albula that is a pulse type carburetor if you can hang on I am trying to find out who the actual mfr of the carb is (probably walbro or zama) and if I have an actual service manual on that particular carb for you. are there any othe numbers stamped anywhere on the carb itself that would help alot.
 

rohmell

Active Member
Jun 2, 2010
1,531
6
38
New York
I know that you are frustrated by this, so maybe the easiest thing to do is to go on eBay or wherever and pick up a new carby for your engine.

Get the engine running and on your bike so that you can ride.

Then, you can play with the other carbs, maybe put in a rebuild kit and try them out one by one.

This way, at least you will have a running engine to compare the carbs to.
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
419
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FL
YIPPIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!! I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Rode to Mc Donalds where i'm at right now on wifi.


Took the bottom half of the carb off of my other HF 52cc, the half that has the fuel intake and outport, and switched it, and also switched the spring screw. That is what it took.

It idles like a champ, runs like a champ, and has lots of BALLLLLLLLS!


I'm happy as all get out, now all I need is to find a chick that wouldn't mind riding on the handlebars to go on a date and my Friday night would be complete.

Thanks for your help.
 

MarkSumpter

New Member
Nov 27, 2010
474
0
0
Ohio
YIPPIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!! I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Rode to Mc Donalds where i'm at right now on wifi.


Took the bottom half of the carb off of my other HF 52cc, the half that has the fuel intake and outport, and switched it, and also switched the spring screw. That is what it took.

It idles like a champ, runs like a champ, and has lots of BALLLLLLLLS!


I'm happy as all get out, now all I need is to find a chick that wouldn't mind riding on the handlebars to go on a date and my Friday night would be complete.

Thanks for your help.
That is really asking for alot more than Carburetor advice...



Glad to hear it is OK and running now it is time to figure out why the other carb is screwed. I will post the other stuff I have later now that it isnt needed desperately... LOL

Yippeeeee
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
419
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0
FL
Thanks for your help again.

I didn't pick up any loose women last night. Went home with my girl. (motorbike) she didn't gripe, bict..., moan, or complain. Cheap date too. She let me ride her for about .45cents (in gas) Best woman in town!

We rolled out early this morning. Here is a pict. before we went back to the shop to add a 1 gallon fuel cell to her.
 

Attachments

Dec 18, 2009
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new jersey
ooooo diaphragm goodness. thats why i hate 2 strokes.first you shoulda tried getting it running then choking it with your finger on and off, that will sometimes pull thru obstructions. diaphragms are hard not to damage when removing from a used engine. is the return line hooked up? everything airtight? if not you'll just have to take it off again and clean it more thoroughly. theres a couple one way valves in diaphragm carbs, and small passages, your filter screen, all have to be cleaned with pressurized air/needles/carb cleaner.you might need a new diaphragm if it was well-used
 

Albula vulpes

New Member
Mar 16, 2010
419
0
0
FL
O.K. .................................................

So the bike is running excellent the other day. The engine sounds so beautiful. The music that is coming out of the exhaust pipe would moisten the panties of a 30 year old virgin. It is running so good and is eagerly craving more throttle.

Then after stretching the MB's legs and opening her up on a long stretch of road, the idle sticks, and it is idling high. I turned it off, readjusted the idle, and she never would start up again. I have done everything I could think of to get the engine to fire up. I get nothing. Any Ideas?


Currently I have 2 friction drive units, and 2 HF 52cc engines. China engines suck, and are not reliable. So I figure that...............................


If I get both engines running, and then mount them to the friction drive units, then.........................................................

When one goes down............................................................

All I have to do is..................................................................

Take one bolt off my bicycle that attaches the Friction Drive Channel to the U-bracket that mounts to my bicycle, and then remove the skewer that attaches the Friction drive channel to the rear support brace/tension bars. Throw on the backup Friction drive unit with the 2nd HF 52cc engine on it with just addition of one bolt and skewer, and roll again with out having to monkey around with a engine that will not start when I'm using the bike as a daily commuter.


Does anyone have any ideas why this engine will not fire up with the description that I have given above? Thanks,
 

rohmell

Active Member
Jun 2, 2010
1,531
6
38
New York
If it was idling high, then maybe you are too lean... air leak somewhere?

Get some carb rebuild kits and rebuild both carbs.
Make sure all engine bolts are snug, maybe even Loctite 'em.
I have the same engines, and I kick the sh|t out of them and don't have any trouble. I wipe 'em down after every use to try to keep everything clean.
Maybe you have stuff coming in thru the air filter?
Maybe a cone-type HP air filter will help?
Maybe even buy a spare carby on eBay?

Just some ideas for you to think about...