This chain tensioner?

GoldenMotor.com
MitchP

MitchP

New Member
Oct 6, 2012
276
0
0
Santa Rosa, CA
My chain sits to the side so it there is no noticeable torsion of the chain. Now that I have a job I will replace the most problematic parts first in this order.

Spark plug
Plug boot
Tensioner
Exhaust
Kill switch

then the fun stuff, rag joint and git some stickers.
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
Sorry, But I don't agree with leaning the engine, grinding gear teeth, or any other adaptation that try's to solve an alignment issue. The engine MUST be mounted straight and SOLID in the frame, It's made to go in this way. If the chain is not hitting the rear sprocket correctly, and the engine is in straight, then it's a REAR SPROCKET ALIGNMENT issue, not a motor mount or drive gear problem. I've had to spacer out, (or in,) many, many rag jointed sprockets to get the alignment right, Sometimes spending HOURS on it to get it right. (put it on, take it off, put it on, ect.)
The engine sits straight in the frame. The rear sprocket is supposed to sit straight on the wheel if you do it right. The only problem after that is spacing the rear sprocket(in or out,) to be IN LINE with the drive gear. This is the hardest part of the build, I know cause I've done 60 (or more,) of them. It takes time and patience to get a rag joint right. And thats just one more reason I use adapters whenever possible.
fatdaddy.
P.S. I've cut out and used the thin part of car tire sidewall to use as extra spacer to go out with it. Sometimes all ya need is a little. I've also cut thinner a stock spacer rubber to go IN with it. Cause sometimes all ya need is a little.
 
Last edited:
2door

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
fatdaddy said:
Sorry, But I don't agree with leaning the engine, grinding gear teeth, or any other adaptation that try's to solve an alignment issue. The engine MUST be mounted straight and SOLID in the frame, It's made to go in this way. If the chain is not hitting the rear sprocket correctly, and the engine is in straight, then it's a REAR SPROCKET ALIGNMENT issue, not a motor mount or drive gear problem. I've had to spacer out, (or in,) many, many rag jointed sprockets to get the alignment right, Sometimes spending HOURS on it to get it right. (put it on, take it off, put it on, ect.)
The engine sits straight in the frame. The rear sprocket is supposed to sit straight on the wheel if you do it right. The only problem after that is spacing the rear sprocket(in or out,) to be IN LINE with the drive gear. This is the hardest part of the build, I know cause I've done 60 (or more,) of them. It takes time and patience to get a rag joint right. And thats just one more reason I use adapters whenever possible.
fatdaddy.
P.S. I've cut out and used the thin part of car tire sidewall to use as extra spacer to go out with it. Sometimes all ya need is a little. I've also cut thinner a stock spacer rubber to go IN with it. Cause sometimes all ya need is a little.
Click to expand...
Ditto:

The engine MUST sit straight in the frame, solidly and centered. From there you get the proper chain alignment at the rear wheel/sprocket.

I will say that often the rear sprocket can benefit from taking the rough edges off the teeth but just the rough edges, not grinding the teeth to points or rounding them off. If the drive and driven sprockets are aligned the chain will run smooth if you don't have binding links or twists in the chain.
Roller chains will not drive around corners or with lateral misalignment. Proper tension is also critical.

Tom
 
MitchP

MitchP

New Member
Oct 6, 2012
276
0
0
Santa Rosa, CA
Side with 2 door, your ideas are cary sounding.

What about an axle mounted on the seat tube, like the jackshaft,
but with another sprocket to drive the wheel to act like an offset, cuz that's all you need right?
 
2door

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
MitchP said:
Side with 2 door, your ideas are cary sounding.

What about an axle mounted on the seat tube, like the jackshaft,
but with another sprocket to drive the wheel to act like an offset, cuz that's all you need right?
Click to expand...
There are exceptions to the "mount it centered" rule. Some frame/rear wheel designs require the engine to be offset from center. The Nirve Switchblade and Schwinn choppers are examples and there are others that need the offset to allow the chain to clear the wide rear tire/wheel. Anywhere from 1/2 to 1" offset may be needed but even still the engine must sit straight with no angle viewed from the top down and the drive sprocket must be perfectly aligned with the rear, driven sprocket. This will usually require custom engine mounts.
The jackshaft idea has been tried with varying results.

Tom
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
2door said:
There are exceptions to the "mount it centered" rule. Some frame/rear wheel designs require the engine to be offset from center. The Nirve Switchblade and Schwinn choppers are examples and there are others that need the offset to allow the chain to clear the wide rear tire/wheel. Anywhere from 1/2 to 1" offset may be needed but even still the engine must sit straight with no angle viewed from the top down and the drive sprocket must be perfectly aligned with the rear, driven sprocket. This will usually require custom engine mounts.
The jackshaft idea has been tried with varying results.

Tom
Click to expand...
I totally agree with EVERYTHING you said in both posts. And although I've only built 10 of the OCC's, and one Jesse James, The engine, even off to the side, was straight in line with the frame and sprocket. And heck, that cheap chinese chain will knock the rough edges off any sprocket.
fatdaddy.
 
Last edited:
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
MitchP said:
Side with 2 door, your ideas are cary sounding.

What about an axle mounted on the seat tube, like the jackshaft,
but with another sprocket to drive the wheel to act like an offset, cuz that's all you need right?
Click to expand...
Thats OK Mitch, I don't want to spend $200 or better on a SPB jackshaft/shift kit to solve a little alignment problem. Besides, the SBP kit, which allows you to shift gears, is not legal in California.
fatdaddy.
 
Pilotgeek

Pilotgeek

New Member
Apr 6, 2011
403
0
0
Green Bay, WI
Just putting it out there, my engine has always leaned just a tiny bit to the left by probably not more than a degree (mind you, it never moves and I can't make it move by pushing it hard) and I've never had a problem in 2000 miles. No abnormal wear, no chain hopping, no noises. I also spent a long time making sure my alignment was perfect when I got a sprocket adapter.

I'm not saying go and lean the engine on purpose, it's not supposed to, but also there are situations where it isn't a huge problem. Good alignment is the top priority, but sometimes there are situations where a build just isn't going to be perfect, or you need a workaround.
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
Pilotgeek said:
Just putting it out there, my engine has always leaned just a tiny bit to the left by probably not more than a degree (mind you, it never moves and I can't make it move by pushing it hard) and I've never had a problem in 2000 miles. No abnormal wear, no chain hopping, no noises. I also spent a long time making sure my alignment was perfect when I got a sprocket adapter.

I'm not saying go and lean the engine on purpose, it's not supposed to, but also there are situations where it isn't a huge problem. Good alignment is the top priority, but sometimes there are situations where a build just isn't going to be perfect, or you need a workaround.
Click to expand...
Well Pilot, Like I said, I've only got more than 60 builds in and almost 9 years of doing this,(5 years as a business,) and I will say that probably not many of my builds were "perfect", but I guess I've just never had one of those builds where I needed to lean the engine, not even a degree. I"ve also never had one that I couldn't figure out a way to MAKE the engine sit straight. If I ever get one of those builds I will get back to you, buy you a beer, and say you were right. But don't hold yer breath cause I don't see that happening any time soon. BUT, after saying that, I will say this again. IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY.
fatdaddy.
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
Groove said:
Hey fatdaddy - Yeah, I read all those post b/w you and the Sarge, back when he was first getting into it. He figured out a pretty genious design, but didn't figure out paypal. ha! So you're using the Howard version now? I have two Cranbrooks and one has hub diameter of 1.507 and the other has diameter of 1.527. Would the Howard version work on either hub ya think? And one sort of related question - should the engine be tilted SLIGHTLY to the left on the frame in order to receive the chain more smoothly? Have you heard of this before? My grinding / occasional pop sound might not be sprocket alignment, but rather, I need to make sure both sprockets are on the same plane?
Click to expand...
Hey Groove, sorry about not getting right back to you about the Howard Mount. Kinda got caught up in the engine alignment issue.
The inner dimensions of the Howard mount are 1.523". I THOUGHT all the Huffy Cranbrooks had the same dimension hub. But I think they're all made in china, and we all know about chinese quality control.
Anyway, The Sarge is not in production of the mount at this time. I had a few that I was selling locally, but I am now down to one, and I think I have it sold to Ocho Ninja. When the Sarge gets back up and running I'll try to let everybody know. If Ocho changes his mind or it won't fit his bike(he has a Schwinn coaster hub,) I'll PM you and let you know. It really is a heavy duty peice of equipment. you would not be disapointed.
fatdaddy.
 
Last edited:
Groove

Groove

New Member
Nov 2, 2012
245
2
0
Lexington, KY
No, the engine tilt / centered issue was very helpful for me. I bought a laser level today to make sure the sprocket is perpendicular to the ground. Sucks being a perfectionist. At least I justified a trip to the hardware store with my other bike though. I will take your and Tom's advice and keep the engine dead center and fool with the rear sprocket. Heck,its a long winter. But gotta admit there seems to be some logic to pilot's reasoning. Thanks everyone. And let me know if you ever run across another one of the Sarge's mounts.
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
Groove said:
No, the engine tilt / centered issue was very helpful for me. I bought a laser level today to make sure the sprocket is perpendicular to the ground. Sucks being a perfectionist. At least I justified a trip to the hardware store with my other bike though. I will take your and Tom's advice and keep the engine dead center and fool with the rear sprocket. Heck,its a long winter. But gotta admit there seems to be some logic to pilot's reasoning. Thanks everyone. And let me know if you ever run across another one of the Sarge's mounts.
Click to expand...
I try not to repeat myself, but this is actually another issue entirely. So I'll say it anyway. If tilting the engine was a good idea, Honda would be doing it.
fatdaddy.
 
Groove

Groove

New Member
Nov 2, 2012
245
2
0
Lexington, KY
I hear you, but these engines are not Honda's, you know? If I was riding a Honda instead of this huffy with a China doll.... I think this wouldn't be an issue....also wouldn't be as much fun!........sprockets.....!@#$
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
Groove said:
I hear you, but these engines are not Honda's, you know? If I was riding a Honda instead of this huffy with a China doll.... I think this wouldn't be an issue....also wouldn't be as much fun!........sprockets.....!@#$
Click to expand...
Motorcycle, moped or motorized bicycle, except for shaft drives they all work the same. The only difference is the amount of torque applied to the sprockets. The same mechanical principals apply. If the drive sprocket is IN LINE with the rear sprocket, straight back, and no tilt or wobble of either one, and of course, the chain is good, then the chain will not fall off untill something fails. And yer right, these things are addicting
fatdaddy.usflg
 
Last edited:
MitchP

MitchP

New Member
Oct 6, 2012
276
0
0
Santa Rosa, CA
Can you guys check out my other thread? motor won't run or stay running.
I'll share my plans for an adjustable pressure exhaust with if you help me out.
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
MitchP said:
Can you guys check out my other thread? motor won't run or stay running.
I'll share my plans for an adjustable pressure exhaust with if you help me out.
Click to expand...
No problem. It would be easier if you put a link to it here. But I'll search for it.
I see you like my "IT'S YOUR BIKE" quote. feel free to use it bro, I've been saying it long enough.
fatdaddy.
 
MitchP

MitchP

New Member
Oct 6, 2012
276
0
0
Santa Rosa, CA
I bought the Kip from bikeberry only cuz Pirate cycles is in AK.

I like the design better, mostly the idle wheel vs the knock off.

$100 is a lot though. A LOT. Dear Kip, This ***t better be good!

My chain bunched and the crappy stock tensioner has grooves in it so the chain wants to fly off as soon as it's on.
 
MitchP

MitchP

New Member
Oct 6, 2012
276
0
0
Santa Rosa, CA
It came today. But now the clutch acts like it's pulled in when I tighten the plate on. As in, it's pushing the 8mm pin into the engine, thus freeing the back wheel, causing no compression. I know I didn't lose the woodruff key because when I back it out or take it off there's compression.

I have installed 3 washers on the 3 clutch cover screws, so 1 per screw. This helps, but the plate is still engaging the pin when the clutch is out so it rolls a little. I don't know what to do. It's not right to drive it like that. I have been out there an hour and a half sawing screws, tweaking things bleh bleh bleh. I am ALMOST at my wit's end here.

This all started when my dad told me to oil the chain. I did. And then it slackened almost an inch, Threw the original tensioner, stripped the screws and then I ordered this one. And now I am here.
 
fatdaddy

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
MitchP said:
It came today. But now the clutch acts like it's pulled in when I tighten the plate on. As in, it's pushing the 8mm pin into the engine, thus freeing the back wheel, causing no compression. I know I didn't lose the woodruff key because when I back it out or take it off there's compression.

I have installed 3 washers on the 3 clutch cover screws, so 1 per screw. This helps, but the plate is still engaging the pin when the clutch is out so it rolls a little. I don't know what to do. It's not right to drive it like that. I have been out there an hour and a half sawing screws, tweaking things bleh bleh bleh. I am ALMOST at my wit's end here.

This all started when my dad told me to oil the chain. I did. And then it slackened almost an inch, Threw the original tensioner, stripped the screws and then I ordered this one. And now I am here.
Click to expand...
A tensioner shouldn't mess with your clutch adjustment. I guess yer gonna hafta shoot some pics, cause I ain't seeing it.
fatdaddy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom