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Old 08-11-2013, 06:35 AM
BarelyAWake's Avatar
BarelyAWake BarelyAWake is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,212
Smile Advice about advice - member profile pages

Here on we're proud to say we've thousands of members more then willing to help in any way they can, offering tips from the very basics of operating bolt-on kits to the details of highly customized projects and fabrication. The difficulty arises that even the most well meaning advice may not be the best solution or the only option, the member offering it and their relevant experience is often unknown, it's sometimes even inapplicable to the issue at hand.

How can a new member tell if the suggestions they're being offered are the best solutions to their questions? Post count means little aside from the fact that individual is a prolific poster, member titles are automatic based on post count alone and even their join date isn't actually relevant. Compounding this problem is basic human nature, we're all at this very moment as experienced as we've ever been - the things we don't know we're often not aware of yet so most of the advice offered is presented as expertise, but it's the level, even type of expertise that's in question.

For example it's a common assumption that someone who sells motorized bicycle engines & accessories or even completed motorized bicycles has extensive knowledge and ability regarding all aspects of the product - but this simply isn't always true. In fact many merchants don't actually use the products they offer and given they're trying to sell them aren't likely to point out any issues with those items, which by itself causes a questionability regarding the advice. If the merchant builds & sells completed bikes they may well know the details of building quickly & inexpensively - but how much do they ride? Is their advice best suited for quick product turn-around or the long distance, high mileage commuter on a budget? If a replacement or upgrade is suggested is it the only solution or are they trying to sell you something? Is it the best so they sell it - or is it the best because they sell it?

Naturally not all vendors deliberately misrepresent the benefits & liabilities of their offerings and there are some who's fabrication skills and riding ability are unparalleled, the fact remains however that even these few are acutely aware that each and every post they make serves as an advertisement for their business - while offering honest assistance is an exemplary example of good business practices, the question arises that if a replacement part is needed would they suggest a competitor's product, even if that product is known to be superior? Some do, most don't - for fairly obvious reasons.

What about other members? Most clearly have no profit motive with their only reward a feeling of accomplishment, that they helped another the best they were able, sometimes they'll get a "thanks" for their trouble. Very often these helpful individuals will seek out issues they're familiar with, a problem they just found a solution for and want to pass along to aid their fellow builders avoid the difficulties they just faced. Unfortunately this noble intent doesn't infer any actual expertise whatsoever, sadly it's sometimes the case that the intent isn't always as noble as it may seem. We're all human and as such subject to bias, we've all our favorites, our preconceptions even misconceptions and will tend to fight for them regardless of their validity, based on that personal preference alone - but is that preference the best solution to your problem? Are there other solutions better suited to your specific issue? Almost without exception but it's up to you to find them, to not just accept answers at face value but also to actively seek out all possible alternatives, to check the actual experience of the member whom so graciously offered their aid and judge for yourself, in the end no matter their intent it's your build, your bike & your problem, the more you know about it the better.

So what to do? The first step is of course the custom google search engine as it's very unlikely that whatever problem you're having is unique, no matter how dire it may seem. While this forum in particular is somewhat odd in that we frown on those that "answer" questions with a cry of "use the search" this is only because we feel that every member has the right to create their own thread to discuss their bikes, for the effort of typing "use the search" you could have and offered the results instead, a far more courteous welcome to the forum and the activity we all have in common. However, it is true that using the search engine is in actuality the very best first step as no matter how many folks try and help you, you'll never receive the sheer depth & diversity of all possible solutions as has been presented by the thousands that constitutes our community, over all the years this forum has been in existence.

Ok, so you've used the search and created a thread about your bike, now almost without a doubt you're subject to an ridiculously overwhelming amount of information - the search works almost too well and our members eager to help...

...but what to do now? There's no problem that has just the one solution, right and wrong often relative at best and our forum is comprised almost exclusively of such discussion, currently we've something like forty thousand threads all talking about bikes with motors as this is exactly what this forum is for of course, the free and open exchange of any and all motorized bicycle information from parts sources to the gritty details of custom fabrication and anyone at all that wants to talk about it - from those of all ages that have never held a wrench in their life to the ones that have spent decades doing nothing but. The catch is, how can you tell the difference? As said before post count means little, titles are automatic and even experience is relative - as an example they may say they're an ASE certified mechanic but are they? Trickier still, does it even matter if they are? How applicable is even a lifetime of auto repair if this is their first two stroke bicycle? Even our general literacy, our spelling, grammar and vocabulary is irrelevant as no matter the size of a word or how hellishly it may have been butchered, it's the meaning that counts and we've members from all nationalities, all walks of life - just because someone uses a word doesn't mean they understand it, just because someone misspells a word doesn't mean they don't.

There's only one way to get any clue as to whether the solution offered has any validity at all and that's member profiles - no matter who they may be, member, merchant, staff or administrator every post we've ever made, every thread we've created on the forum is there for any other registered user to see. Simply left click the user name, left click again on the pop up menu where it says 'View Public Profile' and you'll be brought to their profile page, where not only is there the option for them to present photo albums & groups they belong to, a little "about me" section - but far more importantly what they've contributed, shared with the other members and the resulting consensus.

We very strongly suggest that no matter who they are, no matter how good their suggestion seems to be and even no matter how much others agree with them - click your way to their "statistics" tab, look up where it says 'find all threads started by' and spend a little time seeing for yourself if they've done what they've recommended, if they have themselves used what they've suggested, what they've actually built & why, how far & how often they ride and whatever else they've provided. While not having a complete profile because they're a new member or just don't have much to say doesn't necessarily mean they don't know what they're talking about - having access to that profile is the only way anyone has any chance to find out who they're dealing with at all.

Click profiles, look for build threads and riding adventures but remember there's more questions than just the one you're seeking an answer for, answers that will provide you with so much more than you thought you already knew, no matter your experience or theirs. Oftentimes those that choose to consider themselves "expert" means it's thought there's nothing more to be learned. This is false. The greatest knowledge one can attain is the acceptance of our lack thereof, to know every answer presents more questions - that as soon as you've stopped questioning even yourself, you've stopped learning and thus can't be an "expert" of any real merit.

Most of all, there's marvels to be found
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:42 AM
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2door 2door is offline
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Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

Thanks, Geoff.
It should be required reading for new as well as our long time members. It serves as a good reminder of what the forum is all about and how to get the most from it.

Age and Treachery Will Always Triumph
Over Youth and Skill & "Charlie Don't Ride"
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:59 AM
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bluegoatwoods bluegoatwoods is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,577
Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

A good suggestion.

Maybe I'll have a look at my profile. If it's kinda sparse, then I'll do some updating. Then if I offer advice, the reader can see for himself my mid-level bona fides.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:02 PM
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maniac57 maniac57 is offline
Old, Fat, and still faster than you
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Location: memphis Tn
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Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

This needs to be a sticky for all new members to read.
Great advice!
If more is better, then too much is just enough.
If you can't afford it, build it yourself.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:44 PM
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silverbear silverbear is offline
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: northeastern Minnesota
Posts: 8,166
Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

I think, too, that a certain amount of humility is in order when we're about to spout off opinions on what is the best way to do something or best paint, best bike, etc. I've only used a limited number of paint brands, have virtually no experience with new bikes, am not a great mechanic, have personal experience with a limited variety of frames, engines, tires, lights, etc. It is safer to say, "this is how I built such and such"..."I like these tires and bought a second set because..." or when we are advising others... to qualify by saying "my understanding is" or "in my opinion" instead of acting like every thought in your head is an incontestable fact or that the way you have done something is the right way to do it because that is the way you did it and you like to sound "right". What if your advise leads someone to waste their money or they end up getting hurt? Yet, we want to help and want to take part in the give and take of this forum. That's a good thing. Just be careful in the advice we give and be careful in accepting the advice we receive. Being responsible and respectful will go a long way here.
Someday when I grow up I will probably lose interest in toys with wheels, but until then...
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:57 AM
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Risingsunn Risingsunn is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Maricopa Arizona
Posts: 188
Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

Very well put Silver. Not to mention that when dealing with the typical Chinese two stroke that every one has their individual "personalities" shall we say, and that there is large combination of factors that can contribute to the success or failure of how the engine runs.
Though you can get the most educated opinion from the most talented builder here, they cannot know the situation as well as you, the person in front of that motor. Learn from others what works for them, learn how the engines work and how all the components interact with each other and make educated, logical decisions on how to troubleshoot issues. This is a hobby that you HAVE to learn what you are doing to keep your bike running.To me that is half the fun of having a motorized bike!
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:30 PM
scotto-'s Avatar
scotto- scotto- is offline
Custom 4-Stroke Bike Builder
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ridin' inSane Diego, CA.
Posts: 6,521
Wink Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

Certainly don't listen to my advice cuz I just do what works for me. How's that?

In a nutshell.

EZ Motorbike Dealer - San Diego, CA.
Nothing is out of my realm,
if it doesn't fit, make it fit! Beer is the answer....what was the question?
A sense of humor costs nothing, why don't people use them more often?
"You can't buy have to earn it"
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:31 PM
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MotorBicycleRacing MotorBicycleRacing is offline
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Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

great advice!
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:11 AM
allen standley's Avatar
allen standley allen standley is offline
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Location: Bangor, Maine
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Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

Good perspective overall-A wise man once said... Thanks Barely Awake.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:37 AM
motortriker motortriker is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: florida
Posts: 196
Default Re: Advice about advice - member profile pages

Originally Posted by scotto- View Post
Certainly don't listen to my advice cuz I just do what works for me. How's that?

In a nutshell.

Right ?

Listen to me and you could get killed ?

Don't try this at home kids !

Last edited by motortriker; 08-13-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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