Good-bye clutch! ball bearings? yowee

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javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
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Arizona
I have a grubee 50cc that was humming along just fine. I've been having problems with it holding an idle, so I was tinkering with the throttle screw, trying to boost it a little with the clutch lever engaged. I noticed the clutch was starting to grab, and then I heard a few weird sounds. Crunching, and getting louder. So I shut it off. Took the clutch cover off, and a few of those little bearings came tumbling out... bummer.

The outer race is now separated from the clutch pad/plate. all bearings are out, and it looks like "heck" to try and piece this together... I figure I'll punt and buy a new clutch pad (with the bearings and races all together). sound right?

Now, I gotta figure out how to get the large nut off that shaft, so that I can install a new assembly.

Essentially, I want to buy a new clutch pad assy, leave the shaft in place, etc. I'll scan for a clutch removal how to...

fyi - I was using Lithium grease, and using a pinch straw to spray into the opening between the races to try and keep things lube in there.
 
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gebhardm

New Member
Jul 5, 2010
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Illinois
First remove the nut and washer. WHen I did this I used one wrench on the chain sprocket side nut and a second wrench on the nut you're wanting to remove. Once you have the nut off you will need to use the tool supplied with your kit. The largest threads on the tool will thread onto the large gear. Then by turning the small square bolt on the tool clockwise you will remove (pull off) the large gear (clutch assembly).
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
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Arizona
I was able to break that clutch shaft nut. after wedging a small piece of wood in between the sprocket tooth (on the other side). Unfortunately, my clutch puller tool has stripped threads. I'm able to thread the lock nut on/off without issue, but the removal tool is cross threaded.

oh well, I'll order another tool when I order the replacement clutch pad/plate.

thanks for the info.
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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that's common with clutch tools. i have 6 of them from different motors. 3 of them are completely worthless, and the other three work to make one complete tool.

depending on who you're ordering from, it might be a good idea to ask them to check it to make sure it works before they send it.
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
Anything with fine threads to it goes south in a hurry. Bottom brackets, Crank arm puller, and that sprocket puller. As a Mechanic I have seen some bad boo boos with cars A good through cleaning of the threads with brake clean is a good Idea!


I have seen just a spec of dirt, small rock rip them tiny threads irreparable .
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
I have put brakes back together on two ton and heavier trucks where you get it to thread on and now it will not even unthread. Thrash in the fine threads were reeking havoc. Had to use a cut off tool to get said nut off. Then get new nut and chase what was left of the threads with a die.

On commission that's a money making day right there now I got a lift tied up.laff
 

Kevlarr

New Member
Jul 22, 2009
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Mi
Its a good practice to lube up any puller with machine oil before use.
Dad had a harmonic balancer puller that was about 30 years old, worked great until another mechanic "borrowed" it and didn't lube it before he used it. Took it, ripped up the threads and managed to put it back in dad's toolbox before he got back from the parts counter.
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
18
0
0
Arizona
All, thanks for the input. I'll use machine oil as well. I ordered the clutch and tool. hopefully I'll have them before next weekend.
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
18
0
0
Arizona
received the new clutch and puller. used the machine oil to lube up the threads, and was able to pull out the old clutch just fine. didn't lose the key either when I pulled it free. :)

Now I'm ready to install the new clutch. Do I need to lube the internal bearings before putting it on? I I noticed there are three holes on the backside of the clutch. Just want to make sure everything is lubed up before installing.
 

gebhardm

New Member
Jul 5, 2010
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Illinois
You should definitely lube (grease) the bearings as well as the shaft between the bearings. When you squeeze the clutch lever on the handlebars the cam pushes a rod inside the hollow clutch shaft (this is all happening between the bearings) so this should greased as well since it is a moving part. DO NOT GREASE THE CLUTCH PADS. A small dab of grease on the small gear doesn't hurt either. On the other side be sure to grease the bucking bar, steel ball, and cam.
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
18
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Arizona
You should definitely lube (grease) the bearings as well as the shaft between the bearings. When you squeeze the clutch lever on the handlebars the cam pushes a rod inside the hollow clutch shaft (this is all happening between the bearings) so this should greased as well since it is a moving part. DO NOT GREASE THE CLUTCH PADS. A small dab of grease on the small gear doesn't hurt either. On the other side be sure to grease the bucking bar, steel ball, and cam.
got it, for all the moving parts. To get to the bearings themselves, do you grease through the 3 holes on the backside of the clutch? or somehow use a needle fitting to push grease into the outer race? (Note, I have not installed the new clutch yet. in case I need to add grease through the 3 wholes on the backside of the clutch).

thanks,
-jav
 

gebhardm

New Member
Jul 5, 2010
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Illinois
Javelina

I'm glad to hear you received the new "kit tool" and successfully used it to remove the large gear. Now concerning your question about the three holes, I'm not sure what three holes you are referring to. I think you might be referring to the three holes on the clutch plate (the shiny disk that make contact with the clutch pads) These three holes fit over three rods connected to the large gear and bearing assembly. When the clutch is engaged (plate pressed against pads by large spring inside the clutch assembly) these three rods provide the torque that transfers the rotational energy from the large rotating gear to the sprocket on the other side of the engine. THe three rods also act to guide the clutch plate to the pads. So there really isn't that much movement between the clutch plate and the three rods since they are both rotating together. There is of course some smll sliding movement as the cluch plate slides towards the pads along the rods. I guess a small dab of grease on each rod would be OK but be careful, the rods are close to the pads that provide the friction that joins the two rotating parts of the drive train. SO don't get grease on the pads is what I am saying.
I'm also assuming that you have not removed the clutch rod and the two large bearings on either side of the clutch rod. It is between these two bearings that grease is needed because the shaft that moves the clutch plate away from the pads sits inside the main clutch rod (the shaft I am referring to slides back and forth when pushed by the "bucking bar" ard steel ball and is threaded at its end for attachment of the clutch plate. THe main clutch spring is also found between the bearings. So if you have not removing the bearings and rod then placing grease on the three holes will not reach these moving parts. You can still grease them however by removing the clutch cable stop on the top of the clutch assembly and then squirt some grease down into the hole. These certainly have some grease already but more probably won't hurt. Also you should grease the clutch cam and the bucking bar and steel ball found on the chain sprocket side of the clutch assembly.

good luck
gebhardm
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
18
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Arizona
gebhardm,

many thanks, I appreciate the info, and I will make sure those key components get the proper grease/lube.

My bad for not clarifying, or describing this very well. My question is related to those 56 or 57 little, itty bitty bearings. That ride between the clutch pad plate and the other plate (which slides onto the shaft & key).

My old clutch grenaded at that location. the little bearings shot out, and all over into the clutch assembly area. I was wondering if a lack of grease to those little bearings had caused the original failure. So I was wanting to make sure to lube those. but not sure how to get to them. The new clutch pad/plate assembly is pressed together pretty tightly (which is good I presume). My old clutch, I could see the those little bearings exposed. so maybe that was the issue. the old clutch pad/plate wasn't torque sufficiently, and it started to wobble, no lube, and it finally came apart?

I'll dig through the site to find a clutch assembly diagram, and then spell out the bearing location specifically.

thanks,

-jav
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
18
0
0
Arizona
It doesn't show the 56/57 little bearings, but take a look at:

http://motorbicycling.com/f4/bicycle-engine-clutch-222-2.html

post 18, part number 13 (and 9). Those little bearings that are wedged into that assembly. Do I have to lube those? if so, how do you get to them when they're pressed in there pretty tight.

On the back side of that plate (number 13), there's three "holes".

That's where my old clutch failed. It spit out all of those little bearings.

thanks,

-jav
 
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bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
264
63
living the dream in southern california
i just rebuilt a motor after my chain snapped and slapped up and cracked the left side of my case.

i know the three holes you're talking about. the backside of the clutch "flywheel," (for lack of a better term) where you can see all the little bearings through. those bearings look an awful lot like copper BB's...

i use Phil Wood Bicycle grease that comes in a tube, so i squirted a little bit into those three holes. not too much, because the grease will come out the front and could get on the pads. i don't know if it makes any difference, though. been riding the bike for 2 weeks since, and it's fine.

another spot i greased is where the clutch cable holder is. y'know, that bolt looking thing that screws into the case with the adjuster barrel for the clutch cable. if you take that bolt out all the way, the spring loaded clutch shaft is right there, so i squeezed a couple dabs of grease in there, too. figured it couldn't hurt...
 

javelina1

New Member
Aug 23, 2009
18
0
0
Arizona
Received my new clutch assembly today. Took only about 20 minutes to get everything installed, and adjusted up. Fired up the bike, and a quick shakedown cruise. All is functioning well now. cool!

thank you everyone for your input and support! I'm rolling along again.

-jav